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folder icon   02-11-2012, 12:38 PM
Support the Troops! Post #1
Funderbunk

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Or maybe not.

Source.

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folder icon   02-11-2012, 01:51 PM
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I'm curious what the rationale is for this. Do they think, "We're gonna Nazify those motherfuckas!" "Yay-ahh!!!!! Nazifai Semper Fai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

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folder icon   02-11-2012, 02:39 PM
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Well, A) They're assholes. B) Nazi wehrmacht are too often portrayed as some kind of super soldier, just look at the history channel. The whole thing is about Nazi history and technology. It's no surprise that marines people, who are drilled to respect armed might and also to obey orders over individual thought, would start to idolize them and the Nazi military culture. On a whole it just goes to show once again that something is completely screwed up in the US Military and they need a serious overhaul, psychological screening and all their top men replaced ASAP.

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folder icon   02-18-2012, 09:18 PM
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I wonder if we can attribute it to stupidity where they didn't actually know what Nazis were.

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folder icon   02-20-2012, 06:43 PM
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I think you could definitely attribute it to "they've been out in the desert being constantly worried that people might shoot them for so long that they've forgotten that nobody likes the Nazis".

EDIT: Just so I don't sound ambiguous, the people in that picture are idiots for wanting to be anywhere near Nazi symbols or ideology.

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folder icon   02-25-2012, 10:03 AM
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They're all sitting down, the symbol kinda looks like two dudes sitting down, maybe they thought this was a pre-approved sitting spot and decided to take a picture.

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folder icon   02-27-2012, 07:26 PM
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bah, fuck the SS and the Germans. "super soldier" my ass. If they really want to emulate an insurmountable force, why not something much nobler from Western history, like our Spartan friends here



Simply ignore the thousands of years of butt sex that has made us Greeks the overly sexy yet tragically inbred specimens that we are.

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folder icon   02-28-2012, 12:00 AM
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Yikes.

Why would a nazi sympathizer join the US armed forces? That seems bizarre to me.

eh nevermind, all nazi sympathizers are weird to me.

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folder icon   02-28-2012, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimitri583
bah, fuck the SS and the Germans. "super soldier" my ass. If they really want to emulate an insurmountable force, why not something much nobler from Western history, like our Spartan friends here



Simply ignore the thousands of years of butt sex that has made us Greeks the overly sexy yet tragically inbred specimens that we are.


Butt sex with little boys, to be specific.

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folder icon   02-28-2012, 04:52 PM
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Dimitri doesn't feel the need to be specific. All his buttsex is with little boys.

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folder icon   02-28-2012, 05:52 PM
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I'm pretty indiscriminate, really

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folder icon   03-18-2012, 01:29 PM
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And now the recent massacre in Afghanistan, combined with the burning of Korans and pissing on dead enemies....

Well, so much for winning in Afghanistan... This situation does not bode well...

I guess we can assume the Taliban's gonna take back Kabul, as soon as we pull out?

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folder icon   03-19-2012, 04:25 AM
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And then Santorum will swoop down and... make it worse!

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folder icon   03-19-2012, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
And now the recent massacre in Afghanistan, combined with the burning of Korans and pissing on dead enemies....

Well, so much for winning in Afghanistan... This situation does not bode well...

I guess we can assume the Taliban's gonna take back Kabul, as soon as we pull out?

it's really quite unfortunate timing, things were actually looking positive in that region for the first time.

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folder icon   03-20-2012, 07:20 PM
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There is nothing 'noble' about the spartans. Also butt sex happened (happens) in every culture on earth all through out history. Its just one of those things, like vaginal sex.

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folder icon   03-21-2012, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy the Saint
There is nothing 'noble' about the spartans. Also butt sex happened (happens) in every culture on earth all through out history. Its just one of those things, like vaginal sex.

O_O You mean they have sex in every culture?

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folder icon   03-22-2012, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy the Saint
There is nothing 'noble' about the spartans. Also butt sex happened (happens) in every culture on earth all through out history. Its just one of those things, like vaginal sex.
well, greeks (including spartans) are the forefathers of western culture, so they have a pretty significant meaning to us.

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folder icon   03-22-2012, 07:23 PM
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the spartans wining the Peloponnesian War was very bad for 'western' culture. Alexander the Great wasn't so great for it either.

When we talk about 'Classical western culture' or the 'Classical era' it is always focused on Athenian culture and Classical Athenian because that is were it was all at, the love of art, philosophy, etc We go from there right to Classical Rome. Skipping over Sparta's raise to power some stop at Alexander for some time because he set the stage for the Romans and because there is a lot to learn there, but we where talking about western culture. Christianity and the fall of the Roman empire was very bad for western culture but the Arabs had our back persevering much of classical influences... lala whatever it is not like I am going to get any kind of intelligent response here. Why am I bothering?

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folder icon   04-07-2012, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy the Saint
the spartans wining the Peloponnesian War was very bad for 'western' culture. Alexander the Great wasn't so great for it either.

When we talk about 'Classical western culture' or the 'Classical era' it is always focused on Athenian culture and Classical Athenian because that is were it was all at, the love of art, philosophy, etc We go from there right to Classical Rome. Skipping over Sparta's raise to power some stop at Alexander for some time because he set the stage for the Romans and because there is a lot to learn there, but we where talking about western culture. Christianity and the fall of the Roman empire was very bad for western culture but the Arabs had our back persevering much of classical influences... lala whatever it is not like I am going to get any kind of intelligent response here. Why am I bothering?


Reeeeeaaaallllllli?

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folder icon   04-09-2012, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Crusader~
Reeeeeaaaallllllli?
Told you. Don't know why we even bother...

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folder icon   04-09-2012, 11:02 PM
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I respectfully disagree that it was a blow to western culture that the Spartans beat the Athenians in the final Peloponnesian war.

Philip II would've still had come down from Macedonia and wiped out the city states in the same way anyway. In fact, the result of the Spartans victory actually allowed Athens to exist after the war, since both Thebes and Corinth wanted it totally annihlated. Thus, with the Spartans showing clemency (they shall have the same friends and enemies as Sparta) the western culture would still be able to survive for some time.

I would honestly go into this a bit deeper, but you have a flaw in your thought system. Western culture has always been defined by wars. The glorification of ancient societies, e.g. Spartans, Romans, etc are in direct correlation to their militaristic prowress. In fact, little culture could've been established in any system within the European continent if there was a lack of military ability. Athens itself boasted an impressive military, particularly its naval power, and triumphed it more than the philosophical nature or perhaps artsy nature of their society. The impression that Athens was culture first, military later is a total lie, as the military of most Greek city states was primarily emphasized before anything else.

To be quite honest, Athens usually gets a bit too much credit for Greek, and primitive western culture. While they were absolutely the center of culture in the Grecian world, there was signifcant contributions attributed to many of the city states of the time, including Spartans.

Finally, western culture is honestly more sophisticated and arguably more diverse than any other comparable culture with the exception of many far eastern cultures. This is completely due to military prowress. While granted, western society took many ideas and practices of the middle eastern cultures, thanks to their military conquest (ahem), the result was of a far superior product which advanced technology exponentially in comparison to the rest of the world. Simply put, while other cultures stagnated their progression as a civilization, western, or more specifically, European culture resulted in magnificent societal achievements. When this transition, or supposed superiority actually happened in history is completly debatable, the reason western culture has flourished in comparison to others is thanks to militaristic dominance.

Edit: Be sure to shoot a response Sammy, I am very interested in your view point seeing as you owe your current existence to western culture.

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folder icon   04-11-2012, 11:04 PM
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Had Athens not lost the Peloponnesian war the Theban Hegemony would never have gained power. Philip II would still have come down but the whole thing would have been so very different that most speculation is impossible. But still fun!.

Assuming Athens did win the peloponnesian war then their power base would never have declined meaning the Theban Hegemony would not have existed and Thebes would have been a small fry playing with the big boys. Philip II would have most likely still come as far as Thermopylae but would have been pushed back all the same, further more there is no way that Thebes would have dominated the Amphictyonic League and Athens would not have allowed Philip II to become Archon of Thessaly. It would after all have been an Athenian puppet state that dominated the Amphictyonic League.

So while he may have come down there is little to suggest that he would have wiped out the city states, which he never did in the case of Sparta and Athens by the by. Even if he had managed to break the Athenians power base and take control of Thessaly, Thermopylae and Greece both Philip II and Alexander had a lot of man love for what Athenians use to be. It is why Athens was always treated lightly compared to some of the other city states.


Yes I agree that you need to have a strong militaristic and economic power base to work from before you can start talking about cultural influence, to me that is a given. Without the ability to defeat your enemies it really doesn't matter how much time you spend philosophising, painting, writing, or building. Your enemies will come raise your city either way.

Classical Sparta was always a strong militaristic and economic power but the reason that you never hear about their influence on Western Culture is because for the most part Spartan Culture was always focused on it militaristic prowess never on the finer things in life like that Persian rug in the corner or the Victorian cabinet. I never suggested that Athens wasn't always blowing its own trumpet over its Navel power and control over most of Greece, that is way so many other city states hated them. But that alone do not make much in the way of Culture.

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folder icon   04-12-2012, 02:37 PM
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Well...I had a big response typed out, and apparently an errant keystroke destroyed the entire thing. Haha oh well, I'll try again.

I am intrigued by your empowering of Theban influence in classical Greece. It was as you said, Thebes was essentially the red-headed step child of the Grecian city states. However, they had a fairly ineffectual, and historically unimportant heyday in ancient history. Honestly they are really only semi-noteworthy for having ended Spartan power (with the help of Athens and Corinth) and for being utterly destroyed by Alexander the Great.

However, Athens winning the Peloponnesian war is as unlikely as Thebes being mentioned on the same scale as Athens or Sparta. Athens, being the primary billigerent of the entire conflict was turly only obsessed with gaining more territory (notably Sicily) rather than preserving their own culturistic endeavors. Over the entire history of the Peloponnesian war we see Athens being thoroughly defeated in the majority of conflicts, thanks mostly to their political undercutting of military leaders and poor land based armies. My point being, even speculating Athens could've had a chance of winning the Peloponnesian war, is absolute fantasy at best.

My primary thesis of my first post was to accentuate that thanks to Sparta, Athens was able to survive a conflict in which they should've been devastated. Athens threw away generations of their youth and dried up their vast wealth though the conflict. Their ambitions of taking over Syracuse is honestly laughable. Interestingly considering if they were successful, such success could've lead to the conquoring of Italy (their true motivation in the invasion) perhaps stifling Roman development. Perhaps then Rome would not have sacked Veii and Etruscans could've formed western culture! In such a case that would've been extremely bad!

Anywho, it was truly Sparta that allowed Athens to live in some sort of a respectable state after the Peloponnesian war, rather than be a mess of rubble. Thus, Sparta winning the war gave Athens the chance to make it to the Hellenistic period where they had some influence, albeit nothing compared to their former years.

I will concede the point that Sparta lacks in historical record beyond their military notoriety, although I would've never defended such a supposition. I merely was suggesting that because of militaristic states like Sparta, (Macedonia, Rome, England, etc.) western culture thrived. Let us keep in mind that Athens was still a prominent city throughout the rest of the BC era and well into the Roman Empire. Although I would suggest that Corinth, Thessalonica, and Ephesus were far more important, Athens remains very notable for the majority of history while Sparta does not. I would attribute such notably thanks to Spartan victory.
Tldr

Yay Sparta saved the cradle of Western Society from complete annihlation!

I did very much enjoy reading your view point, I will seriously have to do some more research to Thebes and see what I may have been overlooking as I can't attribute the success of Philip II to the lack of Athenian power. Atleast that is what I got from your post, perhaps I am mistaken.

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folder icon   04-14-2012, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Crusader~
Well...I had a big response typed out, and apparently an errant keystroke destroyed the entire thing. Haha oh well, I'll try again.
that's actually what happened to me also and i said fuck this.

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folder icon   04-17-2012, 08:24 PM
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The whole point was a rather big if Athens had won. Athens by the way could have won, but that is a debate for another day. Sparta not leaving Athens in a pile of rubble did nothing for western culture, razing Athens or the humiliating defeat lead to the same thing. There is no point in debating what happened because well, it happened. If you are going to go down the tracks of if you may as well start with the if Athens won because you said your self that it is "cradle of Western Society". Which is my whole point. Athens is the cradle of Western Society and culture, not Athens because Sparta won but Athens, starting long before the war even started.

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folder icon   04-22-2012, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy the Saint
The whole point was a rather big if Athens had won. Athens by the way could have won, but that is a debate for another day. Sparta not leaving Athens in a pile of rubble did nothing for western culture, razing Athens or the humiliating defeat lead to the same thing. There is no point in debating what happened because well, it happened. If you are going to go down the tracks of if you may as well start with the if Athens won because you said your self that it is "cradle of Western Society". Which is my whole point. Athens is the cradle of Western Society and culture, not Athens because Sparta won but Athens, starting long before the war even started.

Conjecture is part of historical research.

To be clear, I wasn't necessarily attacking your conjecture of Athens winning the war, merely that it was so unlikely that they ever could have, hence the notion may be dismissed. Perhaps not meaning it that bluntly. It is important to always explore the "what if" scenario, irregardless of it's impossibility.

I highly doubt that the legacy of Athens would've remained as it is today had Sparta destroyed the city. Countless artifacts that we rely on for historical information would've been lost and much of their achievements could've been easily obscured by the passage of time. Think of the many civilizations we know of to exist yet know barely anything about. Undoubtedly Athens' legacy would have some sort of meaning if the worst had happened, but there would've been little for Philip and Alexander to admire about a state that lacked the military prowress to survive.

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folder icon   04-23-2012, 12:42 AM
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You are forgetting all about its people, the fact is that much of what we know of Athens did not come out of Athens itself rather out of the people whom made Athens. Thucydides, Plato, Socrates, Xenophon, Aristophanes, Euripides, Aristotle (even if the last is form Thessaloniki he was educated by Athenians)

Their writings where not restricted to Athens her self but spread throughout the whole of Greece. Part of what made Athens so very powerful was that it was not simply a city but able to spread its culture as well, which is the point. No where near as much writing would have survive if Athens had been turned to rubble but much of what we now have would have still lived in some form. Unless Sparta took it in to its head to go a book burning all across Greece and then some, you have have to invade the Persian Empire as well.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it would not have hampered, changed, or altered our development but I am saying is that Athens was much more then a city. Which is why it had such a great influence over everything and one around it. And also why simply razing it would not of driven it from spawning us. You would have to act in the manner not unheard of but commit your self to erasing all of Athens influence throughout the known world. As happened with many civilizations we know of to exist yet know barely anything about.

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folder icon   04-24-2012, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy the Saint
You would have to act in the manner not unheard of but commit your self to erasing all of Athens influence throughout the known world. As happened with many civilizations we know of to exist yet know barely anything about.

That's how they used to play the game.

Enjoyed discussing this with you sir!

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folder icon   05-12-2012, 11:42 PM
Post #29
dimitri583

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy the Saint
the spartans wining the Peloponnesian War was very bad for 'western' culture. Alexander the Great wasn't so great for it either.

When we talk about 'Classical western culture' or the 'Classical era' it is always focused on Athenian culture and Classical Athenian because that is were it was all at, the love of art, philosophy, etc We go from there right to Classical Rome. Skipping over Sparta's raise to power some stop at Alexander for some time because he set the stage for the Romans and because there is a lot to learn there, but we where talking about western culture. Christianity and the fall of the Roman empire was very bad for western culture but the Arabs had our back persevering much of classical influences... lala whatever it is not like I am going to get any kind of intelligent response here. Why am I bothering?



A very strong case has been made by historians that Alexander's armies and the following Hellenistic Empires that took power as a result (Seleucid Persia, Ptolemaic Egypt, Lysimachian Anatolia, Cassanderian Europe, etc.) is what really spread Greek culture the world over. Prior to that, Greeks did not greatly export their culture much to surrounding people, as they considered them less civilized (Barbarian is a Greek word meaning "non-Greek") with the only major exception being the influence on the Romans from Magna Graecia (Greek colonized Sicily and southern Italy). Alexander conquering Athens is what allowed for Athenian people and ideas to follow his armies into the near East and into the rest of the world.

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folder icon   05-19-2012, 09:28 PM
Post #30
Sammy the Saint

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimitri583
A very strong case has been made by historians that Alexander's armies and the following Hellenistic Empires that took power as a result (Seleucid Persia, Ptolemaic Egypt, Lysimachian Anatolia, Cassanderian Europe, etc.) is what really spread Greek culture the world over. Prior to that, Greeks did not greatly export their culture much to surrounding people, as they considered them less civilized (Barbarian is a Greek word meaning "non-Greek") with the only major exception being the influence on the Romans from Magna Graecia (Greek colonized Sicily and southern Italy). Alexander conquering Athens is what allowed for Athenian people and ideas to follow his armies into the near East and into the rest of the world.
As Pen and Teller would say; Bullshit.

Greeks referred to other Greeks as barbarians, the Athenians more then any others. So no it is not "non-Greek" it is more or less "those that don't talk/act as we do". Every culture under the sun has a word like this for foreigners.

Athens influence all over the Mediterranean as already stated, Persia, Egypt, Italy, Southern Spain, and more. We know this from may of the Persian writers etc from that time. Alexander did nothing more then stretch the Greek armies too thin on a quest to be come a god, then left nothing to hold it all together after he died, Rome enter stage right. Alexander was the death of Greece influence and power, nothing more. But it was one hell of a way to go really. Like a supernova...

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folder icon   05-20-2012, 02:14 AM
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It was, obviously, because of Wizards who used thier intense divinely granted knowledge of Physics (gathered via magical divination) and thier study of Biology before dropping out of school (to become Wizards, which is a 2 year degree) to make me the Supernova Load Blaster I am today.

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folder icon   05-22-2012, 09:26 PM
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