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Carrion Swarm vs. Shockwave  
folder icon   02-24-2003, 02:48 PM
Carrion Swarm vs. Shockwave Post #1
Planet_Buster

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Strawberry on the Shortcake

ive always wondered about this... why is Carrion Swarm, which is the same type of spell as shockwave, inferior to it in just about every way? shockwave has lower cooldown, costs less mana, and most importantly, has NO damage cap. the only thing CS has over it is that at lvls 1 and 2 it does slightly more damage per unit; at level 3 it does the same damage per unit, making it totally inferior. whats up with that?

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 03:32 PM
Post #2
Menofhonor

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Also cs can hit air. I think though that you have to look at the heros as a whole. I dont think that blizz ment for all spells to be equal in power just that all heros are relativly equal in power.

The tc is supposed to be the king of the ground at high lvls but really isn't very good at the low lvls. Also the tc has alot less mana I believe than the dl.

How about you compare cl to cs. They do about the same total damage but cs does more damage over fewer units. Also the cs is wide enough that you dont really have to flank the enemy to still get the damage cap so cl doesn't really have an advantage there. Also I love rein and all but infernal is better. As a total package I think that these heros are fine.

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 05:15 PM
Post #3
Zherak_Khan

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meno did good work of desribing it. Yes, carrion works vs air, dl has more mana so on. And the DL has the uber vampiric aura.

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 07:20 PM
Post #4
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I still like the TC better with warstomp and endurance, even though DL is sweet.

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 07:37 PM
Post #5
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warstomp fuckin sucks... i prefer shockwave any day. get into that caster line and shockwave away.. then 1-2 hits from him will usually drop them

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 07:53 PM
Post #6
Zaknafien

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Warstomp costs less mana though. And 5 seconds of stun isnt that bad.

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 08:10 PM
Post #7
Planet_Buster

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Strawberry on the Shortcake

yeah, higher level warstomp is pretty decent, but i still prefer shockwave.
as for the original issue, i was unaware that CS could hit air. that balances it out more, and good point about the spells not necessarily being balanced so long as the heroes are balanced.
however, i wish ppl would not compare cs to cl. you compare cs to shockwave, because they are the same type of spell. cl and cs are only very remotely the same--they both deal damage, and the similarities end there.

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 08:13 PM
Post #8
Zaknafien

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CL and CS have a lot of similartes though

*hit air and land
*max amount of damage
*will almost certianly do max amount if aimed with even a small amount of care

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 08:19 PM
Post #9
Planet_Buster

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Strawberry on the Shortcake

apples and oranges. cs is far more similar to shockwave than cl. its the same thing as shockwave at its most basic level, except that it trades the ability to hit air for a damage cap.

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 08:37 PM
Post #10
Zaknafien

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You hardly have to care about aiming with CL/CS though, SW you actually have to pay some attention.

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 09:05 PM
Post #11
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Warstomp is better then it looks, and can be compared to thunderclap imo.

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 10:36 PM
Post #12
Thrall-WS

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TC is alot better than WS.. TC has stun, slow and more dammage, and the dmk is just a monster stun machine(TC/Bash).

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 10:47 PM
Post #13
Crusty_-_-Gloves

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a very good player can use WS properly, if used right much better than TC i prefer TC moe though watas mana burn comparble to? CL?

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 11:13 PM
Post #14
Zaknafien

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MB isnt comparable to anything.

TC would be better because -75% move/attack is close enough to stun, and all that damage is great.

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folder icon   02-24-2003, 11:53 PM
Post #15
vade

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I dislike that carrion swarm has a limit, but I guess it makes sense from the purpose that there are only so many bats...

The DMK is still my favorite hero for now, because of pure stun ability

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folder icon   02-25-2003, 12:16 AM
Post #16
Menofhonor

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Really when people ask about the similarities between cs and cl I ask: name advantages that cl has over cs. The only one I can think of is that you can face perpenticualer to an army and still deal max damage. CS does more damage to each unit that it hits and if it kills a unit the left over damage carries over. Personally I pefer alot of damage to a few units over little damage to alot of units. They both deal about the same amount of damage and hit air.

Now just because cs and sw have the same type of aoe they have to do the same damage the same way?

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folder icon   02-25-2003, 05:34 PM
Post #17
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Well, CL hits a lot more guys meno. CS is 4 guys, CL is 8. Also, CL can be cast a little more often, which probably makes up for the less damage.

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folder icon   02-25-2003, 08:08 PM
Post #18
Planet_Buster

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Quote:
Posted by Zaknafien:
You hardly have to care about aiming with CL/CS though, SW you actually have to pay some attention.
not true. you have to aim CS the same way you aim SW, because the spell operates the same way. CL you dont aim at all, you just target the unit you want to hurt the most and the spell does all the work for you.

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folder icon   02-25-2003, 08:23 PM
Post #19
Zaknafien

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Well yes, but my point is with CS the angle is so wide you hardly have to care where you throw it, its bound to do something. SW if you just look in the general direction of the enemy army and throw it out there you wont get the full benefit.

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folder icon   02-25-2003, 08:54 PM
Post #20
Menofhonor

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Zak you didn't read my post very well. I said that cs does more damage to each unit but they both do about the same total damage. I also said i prefer lots of damage to few units over little damage to lots of units.

Also with casters and ranged units its actually hard to cast cs in the middle of an army and not get the full damage potential.

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folder icon   02-25-2003, 09:06 PM
Post #21
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Hmmmmm. I suppose you have a point there. Of course, since I almost never use any of the spells except CL I wouldnt know that well. One thing though, CL with its ricocheting all over the place its great for taking out a fleeing army. Just throw it at them and you can take out about 6 units. So I suppose thats another thing I like about CL. Its range it also much rather than Swarm or CL because as long as you hit the initial guy.

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folder icon   02-25-2003, 09:07 PM
Post #22
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can't we all just get along and discuss how sweet immoliation is with evade

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folder icon   02-25-2003, 09:34 PM
Post #23
Menofhonor

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One time I took out alot of ghouls with my lvl 7 dh with immo evade and meta.

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folder icon   02-25-2003, 10:47 PM
Post #24
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mmm, immo and evade, my favorite dh combo. i never used mana burn, even before it got taken down a notch.

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folder icon   02-25-2003, 10:58 PM
Post #25
Menofhonor

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Mana burn was the shit before it got nerfed. Now it is a mediocre spell that I still use vs orcs.

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folder icon   02-25-2003, 11:03 PM
Post #26
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MB's still good though Especially considering how in meta hese ussually away from the front lines.

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folder icon   02-26-2003, 12:15 AM
Post #27
vade

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Quote:
Originally posted by Menofhonor
One time I took out alot of ghouls with my lvl 7 dh with immo evade and meta.

Sounds like a lot of NE vs UD games...wonder why so many NE players are complaining about mass ghouls...

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folder icon   02-27-2003, 12:44 PM
Post #28
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Because sometimes the ghouls dont go after the DH.

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folder icon   02-28-2003, 12:37 PM
Post #29
Menofhonor

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Yea ghouls own all ne ground except bears and dryads with good micro. Once the army is gone its hero nuking time. I love it how people still think that hunts own ghouls then you hit tier 3 and get ghoul frenzy and rip through their army without losing a unit.

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folder icon   03-02-2003, 02:17 AM
Post #30
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Bah... carrion swarm... I like it yet I never use it. By the way... I'm curious... has anyone done the math? How many Blizzard waves would it take to equal the damage done by a single carrion swarm?

I think that Blizzards an extremely effective spell if timed right... and if the archmage is given the proper support. And of course the stupidity of your enemy is always a prime factor =P

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folder icon   03-02-2003, 02:45 AM
Post #31
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The main advantage of CL is a huge AoE. CS is a narrow wave, while CS can stretch 2 screen lengths if the units are lined up right. You're gauranteed the bang for your buck no matter what. I just wish it could bounce back to units like it used to. Makes the spell so much more fun.
IMO, warstomp is more useful than sw in 1v1 games. The TC is supposed to be a damage soaker, right? He's the front line man, his hps are high, his attack great. Melle units swarm around him, STOMP! Walk into mass casters, STOMP! Allows him to stop channeling spells, something a clapping MK cant do 75% of the time. SW needs alot of units bunched up to be effective, and it really doesnt do much against heavier units. But stomp works for all units at all times,and stun really is vital because it interupts spellcasting and all.

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folder icon   03-07-2003, 10:26 PM
Post #32
Crusty_-_-Gloves

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well here are some reasons tehy are better/worse than eachother



CL 180 max to 0 over max of 12 units hits air and ground

SW 250 max over many units if positioned correctly(roughly 16) hits buildings and ground

CS not sure so blah, im very bored

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folder icon   03-07-2003, 11:13 PM
Post #33
Zaknafien

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CL isnt 12 units.

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folder icon   03-08-2003, 08:36 PM
Post #34
Menofhonor

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SW is 200 per unit.

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folder icon   03-09-2003, 03:33 PM
Post #35
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Didn't the latest patch for Frozen Throne up the CS damage?

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