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folder icon   10-04-2006, 01:52 AM
Post #36
Dark Jester

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Endless rage for 10 seconds is fucking garbage. How the fuck is that remotely worth it? God that talent is such garbage it isn't even funny.

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folder icon   10-04-2006, 02:35 AM
Post #37
Planet_Buster

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you going to explain some reasoning behind that statement, or just continue to look like a dumbass?

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folder icon   10-04-2006, 08:39 AM
Post #38
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Yes, explain how much worth Endless Rage has? Yeah thats right, about 0.

A 5 minute cooldown for 10 seconds of no rage usage? In PvP I'm NOT stretched for rage, I usually have rage coming out the wazoo. Not to mention MS+Deathwish>fury and arms 41 talents.

It's pretty much almost as worthless as berserking. Devastate is actually the only decent 41pt talent.

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folder icon   10-04-2006, 11:06 PM
Post #39
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Double Post

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folder icon   10-04-2006, 11:07 PM
Post #40
Dark Jester

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I cast Endless Rage.

You Cast Polymorph
You Cast Frost Nova
You Cast Repentance
You Cast Sap
You Cast Blind
You Cast Gouge
You Cast Deathcoil
You Cast Fear
You Cast CROWD CONTROL LOLOL GRATS 5 MINUTE COOLDOWN.

I cast Endless Rage

You don't cast CC

I MS..... I WW.... I..... Heroic Strike spam cus all my shit is on cooldown LOLOL.

Or how about all it's use in PvE.

You cast Endless Rage
Your items have suffered 10% durability loss
You suffer a million damage

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folder icon   10-05-2006, 04:23 AM
Post #41
Planet_Buster

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Quote:
Posted by Crusader:
It's pretty much almost as worthless as berserking.
normally i like you Crusader, but that statement right there destroyed all credibility your post might have had. and if you have tons of rage in PvP then dump all but the rage you need to activate it right before and then get 10 seconds of free rage usage while your rage total shoots back up(unless you throw a massive damage execute in there) so when you come out of it you have tons of rage again.
Quote:
Posted by DJ:
I cast Endless Rage.

You Cast Polymorph
You Cast Frost Nova
You Cast Repentance
You Cast Sap
You Cast Blind
You Cast Gouge
You Cast Deathcoil
You Cast Fear
You Cast CROWD CONTROL LOLOL GRATS 5 MINUTE COOLDOWN.

polymorph and fear have cast times--are you honestly going to use it when fighting a mage or lock and then be dumb enough to give them the time to CC you? for fear also, youre a warrior, you have fear breaks.
sap requires stealth. yes, i love to pop endless rage when im fighting a stealthed rogue.
blind you cant do much about, but thats a 5-minute cooldown and a reagent for the rogue, so you come out about equal.
gouge lasts all of 4 seconds, and the rogue cant do jack to you for those four seconds either or it breaks. not to mention as an actual attack it can be parried, dodged, miss, etc.
deathcoil has a 2 minute cooldown of its own and only affects you for 2 or 3 seconds. maybe enough for the lock to get off a fear which you then break.
none of these spells is instant GG to endless rage. not to mention that they have to realize youre using endless rage and take the thought to use CC on you in the middle of a big battle. you dont know what kind of animation endless rage has so you dont know how obvious it is.

and you can use more than WW and MS when youre on endless rage. not to mention that you can use MS twice. endless rage, like pretty much every self-buff with a cooldown, is situational. use it to intercept-mortal strike-execute some caster or weakened other player, WW people around him, and mortal strike again(and assuming all that activates the global CD youve still got time for another ability). free rends and thunderclaps to stack up on enemies. free overpowers if the situation comes up.

it may not be an amazing PvE skill, but Arms isnt an amazing PvE tree. not every skill has to be good for everything.

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folder icon   10-05-2006, 10:53 AM
Post #42
~Crusader~

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Planet_Buster
normally i like you Crusader, but that statement right there destroyed all credibility your post might have had. and if you have tons of rage in PvP then dump all but the rage you need to activate it right before and then get 10 seconds of free rage usage while your rage total shoots back up(unless you throw a massive damage execute in there) so when you come out of it you have tons of rage again.


Don't tell me you think Berserking actually has worth to it? PvP warriors DONT rely on cooldowns because they can't. Believe me, any crowd control (like dj said) negates endless rage. Berserking, (following considering fury in general) unless you have the most incredible amounts of ap and have the flat out best gear possible has no worth. The AP from berserking while building up: you just burnt 30 rage, and you gain ap per hit for max amount. The ap is small enough that this will ONLY have use in pve, since you don't, as a warrior have time to use the whole time duration in pvp. Not to mention building up to the 41 point, you have 15 pts to put into arms, considering if you get tactical mastery (pvp must), and what you get from arms is the lackluster stuff, no weapon specialization, no MS, very little help.
Quote:
polymorph and fear have cast times--are you honestly going to use it when fighting a mage or lock and then be dumb enough to give them the time to CC you? for fear also, youre a warrior, you have fear breaks.
sap requires stealth. yes, i love to pop endless rage when im fighting a stealthed rogue.
blind you cant do much about, but thats a 5-minute cooldown and a reagent for the rogue, so you come out about equal.
gouge lasts all of 4 seconds, and the rogue cant do jack to you for those four seconds either or it breaks. not to mention as an actual attack it can be parried, dodged, miss, etc.
deathcoil has a 2 minute cooldown of its own and only affects you for 2 or 3 seconds. maybe enough for the lock to get off a fear which you then break.
none of these spells is instant GG to endless rage. not to mention that they have to realize youre using endless rage and take the thought to use CC on you in the middle of a big battle. you dont know what kind of animation endless rage has so you dont know how obvious it is.

Mages polymorph warriors all the time in pvp, I have no idea how you are going to prevent this when you are frost nova'd, or your intercept is down after a blink. And yes, you have to be dumb enough to give them enough time to CC you because you don't have a choice. That is unless you've got a paladin healing/cleansing you, sometimes you just can't get the jump on everyone, and pummels have to be very well timed.

Gouge then kidney shot? Smart rogues know how to stunlock, and can easily keep you stunlocked for the entire duration of endless rage.

Most warlocks use death coil once per fight, cool down has nothing to do with it. Plus how about the succ? You're telling me warriors can break seduce?

And endless rage will most likely have a graphic, why wouldn't it?

I've been playing a warrior since release, I know something about my class and how it pvps. I'm thinking dj has the same experience.

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folder icon   10-05-2006, 04:16 PM
Post #43
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PB's post brings me to an interesting question. I don't know whether it's been addressed or not. How will execute work with endless rage? Will is just do minimal damage, or will it do minimal dmg plus whatever rage you've got anyway?


All those things DJ listed will be done to you anyway in battles regardless of whether you have endless rage or not. Just think of the damage potential. Throwing in MS, WW, shouts, plus heroic strikes everytime since they don't fuck up your rage generation. It's not a game-breaking ability, but it'll give you a nice burst of damage. Think about it. 30r for MS, 25 for WW, 30 for int shout, 15 for HS(plus the rage you don't get when using it)... that's about 100 rage right there. You mean to tell me that when you charge a mage you get full rage right that instant? Or does it take a few swings? You don't have that much time, but it only takes a few hits to take one down.

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folder icon   10-06-2006, 12:13 AM
Post #44
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Quote:
Posted by Gaggin:
PB's post brings me to an interesting question. I don't know whether it's been addressed or not. How will execute work with endless rage? Will is just do minimal damage, or will it do minimal dmg plus whatever rage you've got anyway?
my guess would be since the ability reads something like "reduces rage cost on all abilities to zero", that it reduces the base cost of execute to zero rage and your entire rage bar(whatever rage you have) gets converted into extra damage.
Quote:
Posted by Crusader:
PvP warriors DONT rely on cooldowns because they can't.
only an idiot relies on cooldowns, regardless of class. cooldowns are things to be used situationally when you think you can use them to maximum effect. sometimes youll do well. occasionally youll get screwed because you missed something or just got unlucky. thats how cooldowns work. endless rage is only 5 minutes. are you telling me youve never used recklessness or retaliation in PvP, because you cant rely on them? listen to Gaggin. CC is going to happen to you whether you use endless rage or not. so try to use it in a situation where you think its unlikely to happen.
as for berserking, you actually are talking about rampage, the 41 point fury talent. berserking is a troll racial, and thats what i thought you meant. and yes, i think rampage has worth to it. if you put 15 points into arms youd be stupid not to get anger management, which will pay for 1/3 the cost of rampage on its own over rampage's full duration. not to mention extra ap = more damage = more rage, so its paying for itself there too. trying to keep it up constantly will get costly on rage, as you dont know when youre going to crit, but trying to keep it up all the time is just asking for that. as for the ap boost, i dont see how 200 ap is so tiny as to be insignificant, and thats over only 5 attacks so youll get it pretty quickly. and you wouldnt be able to get weapon specs or MS if you got rampage regardless of TM, and even if you only went up to bloodthirst you still couldnt get MS. if youre going to talk about arms PvP, then dont talk about rampage. its pointless to lament not getting MS if youre talking about it since MS is heavy arms and rampage is heavy fury. so that argument is moot in and of itself.

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folder icon   10-06-2006, 11:27 AM
Post #45
~Crusader~

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I was solidifying my argument against the fury tree

And yes, I never use my 30mins, in fact they aren't on my bar. I'm just expressing how much more efficient and worthwhile a 31/25/5 build is going to be over any 41pt build for pvp. MS and Deathwish, a 20% fear-breaking boost to a base 300 damage (at 70) plus whatever weapon you have with the healing debuff far exceeds either of the 41 point skills.

That's why I won't be getting endless rage.

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folder icon   10-06-2006, 01:03 PM
Post #46
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well meh, you do what you want, and ill do the same

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folder icon   10-06-2006, 02:04 PM
Post #47
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Hehe how it always works out.

I may be rerolling alliance shammy anyway for the expansion, so we'll even see if i can taste the deathwish MS glory.

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folder icon   10-06-2006, 11:34 PM
Post #48
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The only 30min I ever use in pvp is shield wall. I usually forget I have it, but when I'm running the flag and I'm getting swarmed on, I switch to a shield and hit it. It's fun seeing them throw all their hard hits at you and you barely lose life... for 10 seconds anyway. Then I usually die, but whatever...

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folder icon   10-07-2006, 12:14 AM
Post #49
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alliance shammy? BLASPHEMY!

im restarting UD warrior myself.

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folder icon   10-09-2006, 12:17 PM
Post #50
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So rampage is worthwhile because it has situational uses? Glad to know I lowered my overall damage against all opponents in order to defeat a shadow priest once every 5 minutes.

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folder icon   10-10-2006, 04:27 AM
Post #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaggin
The only 30min I ever use in pvp is shield wall. I usually forget I have it, but when I'm running the flag and I'm getting swarmed on, I switch to a shield and hit it. It's fun seeing them throw all their hard hits at you and you barely lose life... for 10 seconds anyway. Then I usually die, but whatever...

Yeah, I do that on occasion... I also like to bust recklessness when I'm hunting down the flag carrier and he's alone, or with not too many friends... 4-5 crits in a row and no healing can keep him up.

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folder icon   10-10-2006, 05:19 AM
Post #52
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hunter talents finally up, huzzah!

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folder icon   10-10-2006, 06:44 AM
Post #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Planet_Buster
hunter talents finally up, huzzah!


pretty fucking kickass talents too, I might add.

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folder icon   10-10-2006, 02:32 PM
Post #54
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yes, they certainly are. im having trouble deciding which tree i want to spec into the most.

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folder icon   10-10-2006, 04:26 PM
Post #55
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OMG did you see the new Pally talents? They're so cool pallies might not suck quite to so much!

Poor, poor pallies...

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folder icon   10-16-2006, 10:49 PM
Post #56
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Revision changes to Pally/Lock/War.

War changes are purty. I like endless rage now.

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folder icon   10-16-2006, 11:03 PM
Post #57
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yeah, endless rage may not be a flashy cooldown move now, but its probably more effective overall.

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folder icon   10-18-2006, 12:14 AM
Post #58
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Probably more effective? It's actually a wise decision to go 41 pts into arms now.

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folder icon   10-18-2006, 02:16 AM
Post #59
Silencer-7

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fucking second wind is awesome.

10% hp over 10 sec anytime you are stunned/slowed? pure bestage.

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folder icon   10-18-2006, 07:23 AM
Post #60
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sadly, they took off the daze trigger. no more exploiting it with hunter's aspect of the pack sensible though.

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folder icon   10-19-2006, 05:25 PM
Post #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silencer-7
fucking second wind is awesome.

10% hp over 10 sec anytime you are stunned/slowed? pure bestage.


Are you sure it's slowed? From what I read it was stun or immoblizing effects. From that I would assume it would only proc off actual immobilizing effects like Counterattacks, entangling roots, imp hammy/Wingclip, etc.

Getting 10% of your health back every time you're simply slowed down seems a tad rediculous.

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folder icon   10-20-2006, 12:27 AM
Post #62
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yep, DJ is right. pretty sure anyway.

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