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A Christian Socialist Party?  
folder icon   12-01-2007, 07:16 PM
A Christian Socialist Party? Post #1
Urin_BloodfaceII

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At least in Norway there are only conservative christian political parties, why arent there socialist christian parties since the socialists are much more " help the poor, turn the other cheek, no war, deathpenalty & healthcare". WWJV ( What Would Jesus Vote)

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folder icon   12-02-2007, 02:21 AM
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Friend of Fidel

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Because most socialist parties argue that state and church should be separated? Socialists are more secular than other people including hippies.

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folder icon   12-02-2007, 02:54 AM
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Black~Enthusiasm

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friend of Fidel
Because most socialist parties argue that state and church should be separated?

Which is also something the Christ argued in favor of.

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folder icon   12-02-2007, 03:35 AM
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Urin_BloodfaceII

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And the whole " Its easier for a rich man to get through a needles eye than get into heaven" would make taxing the rich a favor.

But there Fof is kinda my point, we got like 16 political parties in Norway, and none of them is socialist and Xtian. Its lacking and should be something for the "liberal Xtinans" to vote for.

PS: BE. You dont by any chance know where it says that. It is a good quote and I would like to use it in a discussion.

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folder icon   12-02-2007, 03:38 AM
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Black~Enthusiasm

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There you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar...

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folder icon   12-02-2007, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black~Enthusiasm
Which is also something the Christ argued in favor of.

A contextual quote that has been argued over for a very long time. I do not really think it is the necessary advocating of seperation of church and state, but more of a submit to your government what is your governments.

Besides, seperation of church and state is a the prevention of a government endorsing a religion, not a total wall between the two.

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folder icon   12-02-2007, 03:06 PM
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Black~Enthusiasm

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Crusader~
A contextual quote that has been argued over for a very long time. I do not really think it is the necessary advocating of seperation of church and state, but more of a submit to your government what is your governments.

Besides, seperation of church and state is a the prevention of a government endorsing a religion, not a total wall between the two.


I'd say its even less than that. Laicity is merely a policy that prevent religion from interfering with the political process. Understood as such, a government can still publicly endorses a religion without allowing it from playing a policital role.

Also, there are two other quotes that argue in favor of a separation of Church and State. One where Jesus specified that "His Father's Kingdom was in Heaven, not here", and in Jn-5;41, were Jesus sais that he doesnt need the glory and approbation of men, meaning that institutionalized worship and institutionalized promotion of christianism arent needed.

Plus all the stuff about Christianity being an intimiate, personal religion between an individual and God. And St-Augustin's "City of Earth and City of Heaven" principle.

Right, Bryndon?

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folder icon   12-02-2007, 09:53 PM
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I'd agree with all of that. I jumped mostly because most Americans find seperation of church and state as being a block on religion.

Although the institutionalism of worship and spreading of the gospel is not generally encouraged by Christ (these groups become very agenda based and corrupt quickly), however the need and the importance of both of those is encouraged as something that you SHOULD do instead of just suggested to.

Anyway, we're getting way off topic, my bad!

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folder icon   12-28-2007, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urin_BloodfaceII
At least in Norway there are only conservative christian political parties, why arent there socialist christian parties since the socialists are much more " help the poor, turn the other cheek, no war, deathpenalty & healthcare". WWJV ( What Would Jesus Vote)

No healthcare? Norwegian socialists are quite different from Swedish ones, if I got you correctly.

About the secularity of the US, do you still swear on the bible in US court rooms? I've always thought that that doesn't make any sense. It'd feel completely pointless for me as an atheist to swear on the bible, but what if I was jewish or muslim, it'd make even less sense...

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folder icon   12-28-2007, 01:06 PM
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Black~Enthusiasm

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People who enter office are free to swear on whatever books they want. That muslim congressman was able to use the Koran.

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folder icon   12-28-2007, 01:48 PM
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I think i recall some point in the bible where it says that one should not swear, espesially on the bible or anything thats holy.

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folder icon   12-28-2007, 10:06 PM
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Urin_BloodfaceII

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Sorry. I did'nt express myself clearly.

They are against deathpenalty and a big focus on healthcare. Some say to much.

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folder icon   01-04-2008, 02:55 PM
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Kjell Thusaud

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urin_BloodfaceII
Some say to much.

Nigh on impossible to have to big focus on healthcare in this day and age, It seems to be consistently beaten up and left for dead.

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folder icon   05-09-2008, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urin_BloodfaceII
At least in Norway there are only conservative christian political parties, why arent there socialist christian parties since the socialists are much more " help the poor, turn the other cheek, no war, deathpenalty & healthcare". WWJV ( What Would Jesus Vote)

Not being in any way, shape, or form an expert on Norwegian politics I can't say that much on your predicament but there are some general points I can make. While in Europe many countries have some kind of Christian Democrat party, representing the right, this is not the case in North America. The US, with its two party system obviously lacks a specifically names Christian party, and while Canada does have a Christian Heritage Party on the far right, it can only be referred to as a fringe group that receives few votes and has never enjoyed representation in Parliament.

Interestingly enough the party that arguably had the greatest connection to the Christian faith in Canada was the, Social Democratic/Socialist, New Democratic Party. Many of the parties leaders and representatives have been ministers, predominantly drawn from the United Church. The United Church being the largest Protestant denomination in Canada by admitted membership, falling second in attendance to the Anglican Church, is a mainstream religion in the country. For those not aware it was founded in the early twentieth century as a merger of most of the country's Presbyterian sects, all of the Methodists, and a third church whose identity eludes me at the moment. At one point they nearly merged with the Anglicans to boot. The United Church is known as quite leftist, the Social Gospel movement was always very prominent in the church, and today (along with the odd Anglican congregation and some Reform Judaism Temples) performs gay marriages, being a principle voice in the fight to legalize gay marriage during the debate over that issue in the country (which of course resulted in Canada being one of the very few countries to recognize the practice , although that was principally on constitutional grounds (which interestingly enough led South Africa to follow suit as it based not only its Constitution on Canada's but also follows Canadian precedent extensively, being fans of Justice L'Heureux-Dubé in particular)).

That said the relationship between the Left in general with Christianity has been in decline everywhere. Hell you can trace this to the very founding of the term "Left" and "Right", that is to the Legislatures found in France during the Revolution, where the Left originates as the more radical voice in the Legislatures who actually sat on the left of the chamber. They were the ones most likely to be involved in the various programs of dechristianization, although it was a minor movement overall, gaining most of its support purely through Robespierre's position of authority, and pretty well dieing with him. This has become very prominent in the past couple of generations which, in the US in particular, have seen church attendance rise in self identified Conservatives, and fall in self identified Liberals. Meaning there simply does not exist the numbers to warrant a leftist party that is explicitly Christian, and why should there be parties explicitly linked to a single religion, religious issues are pretty well distinct from most policy issues. Someone may form their opinions on abortion, gay rights, the treatment of the poor, crime, etcetera through their faith, but they will have no reason to against someone who takes the same position based on secular grounds. Social Gospel types can safely vote NDP even though they feel they agree with the platform on religious grounds without fear of being aligned with an Atheist who does the same for purely secular reasons. How a person reaches their political position is not important to the process, only how they wish to express those preferences.

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