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So our society has taken one more step towards socialism...  
folder icon   11-16-2007, 04:19 AM
So our society has taken one more step towards socialism... Post #1
kiljaeden

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The high school that I graduated from in June of this year has sunk to a new low. According to a rule or guideline or whatever, if an organization (club, team, band) that receives money from the ASB (All Student Body (?)) does a fund-raiser, each kid doesn't necessarily get that amount of money that they raised. All the money is pooled, and distributed evenly amongst all the members. So the kid that just earned $300 now has had that amount chopped probably by more than half, and the punk kid in the back corner that didn't do anything now has some dough that he isn't going to use. I'm sorry, but isn't that the exact definition of socialism?

Discuss.

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folder icon   11-16-2007, 04:43 AM
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Whatever wuss-socialism your educational institute practises cannot possibly undermine the transnational structural power of capital and its affiliated neo-liberal orthodox political economy infested supernational institutions sucking the boots of the G7-group.

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folder icon   11-16-2007, 06:24 AM
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Amen brother Fof!

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folder icon   11-16-2007, 12:10 PM
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oh and another thing:

Why would a group good at fund raising want support from this ASB if they know they are going to have to share everything? Why not just go on a field trip or whatever independently?

And some more things:

There is no such thing as "the exact definition of socialism". Socialism means different things to revisionists, social democrats, radical new left, hippies and Soviet Union fans. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" hardly means splitting everything even

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folder icon   11-16-2007, 02:02 PM
Post #5
l.

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As FoF said, terms like fascist, socialist, liberal and so on are so broad they'll often branch into each other.

Many modern socialists will support the concept of incentive to work (usually monetary), but under a socialist system. So there'd be some sort of reward for the kid that raises $300, to keep him raising that (for example, in the Soviet Union, you'd get a Lada or Trabant or holiday by the Black Sea). Maybe all the kids are given the same resources to start with, and then make their own with what they're given; in this scenario the redistribution happens at the beginning to produce equality of opportunity and then they work according to their abilities to make what they can; some may produce [and keep] more than others, but they were given the same in the first place. That last one is a very post 1980s concept, and very very not marxist and incorporates capitalism, but under control of a socialist regime.

The idea of capitalism regulated by socialism is, for example, instead of the free market saying how much a doctor earns in relation to a judge the state decides instead depending on that profession's (or even individual's*) worth to the collective/society. They can decide with a neutral view from the side-lines, and avoid cartels, price fixing, poverty as a result of a change in trends in industry, etc. (including re-training); instead of an ultimately seemingly chaotic system (free market) deciding the wage rates. Before anyone argues back at me about wages, there's been much studying, and so far the free market has been considered to be so complex that they still have to consider it too chaotic to make sense of as if yet, especially with things like the stock market. Also, classical economists / monetarists say that there will be full employment, efficiency and market-clearing prices in the long run... just no one's lived long enough under full free-market to see the long run yet; so no one really knows... and even if so, is it worth waiting all those generations?

*As the Collective is made up of many Individuals.


Though, as a final point, yes your school's system is retarded, but not socialist.

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folder icon   11-16-2007, 04:23 PM
Post #6
kiljaeden

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friend of Fidel
Whatever wuss-socialism your educational institute practises cannot possibly undermine the transnational structural power of capital and its affiliated neo-liberal orthodox political economy infested supernational institutions sucking the boots of the G7-group.

Yeah, but other schools are going to catch wind of this and think that it's a good idea, and that can only lead to bad things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friend of Fidel
oh and another thing:

Why would a group good at fund raising want support from this ASB if they know they are going to have to share everything? Why not just go on a field trip or whatever independently?

And some more things:

There is no such thing as "the exact definition of socialism". Socialism means different things to revisionists, social democrats, radical new left, hippies and Soviet Union fans. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" hardly means splitting everything even


The specific group I"m "advocating" is the music program, and it's dying. They need all the money that they can get, including the money from the ASB. They're not good at fundraising in general, but a few kids are.

They now HAVE to do things independently if they want to do anything extracurricular that involves money, and that's a pain to set up. They need a president and a secretary and a total of about 8 other people, and they only have about 2 parents willing to help out.

Okay, so I've never taken a political science class (or somehow learned about socialism specifically, don't split hairs) so I've never studied the ideal, but this certainly falls under the category of "ideals that we don't want to institute on our young ones". Maybe it's not the "exact definition of socialism," but it's sure under the same umbrella.

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folder icon   11-18-2007, 07:57 AM
Post #7
so and so

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1st, I'm not sure exactly what the money is for - individual students, or one big music program? Is this division going evenly to different students, or different schools? If the money goes directly to students, then they should obviously keep what they earned. If it's to promote music in several schools, then it should obviously go to those schools that need it most for their music programs, although the spending should also be influenced by which schools want it the most, which is partially reflected in how much cash they collect.

2. FoF already made some good comments, and I mostly agree with him.

3. I think this statement here is most telling, "I've never taken a political science class...Maybe it's not the "exact definition of socialism," but it's sure under the same umbrella"

Dude, I can fuck up any social ideology through mismanagement, but it doesn't mean the ideal is wrong.

What you need is a better analogy to socialism. Let's say you club members represent the world population. You go out to raise money (work) for your club survival, and some of you are more successful than others. You think only the most successful should share the rewards -that the other members are lazy bastards. Well, in your school club this might be true. But, as a world population, they are not. There are people who have physical and mental handicaps that limit their ability to raise funds. Furthermore, no matter how many members you have asking for cash, there are still only a limited number of people out there willing to give that money. So some fundraising members will always end up losers - not enough jobs for the working population, just as there aren't enough openings for good colleges. So then what do you do? Let the losers rot? Or do you create social programs to help keep them on their feet?

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folder icon   11-21-2007, 04:18 PM
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It's because American public schools are so horribly underfunded they have to pool all resources together for extra cirricular activities. Many schools charge stundents a fee just to participate in sports like football, soccer, volleyball, etc.

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folder icon   11-22-2007, 02:00 PM
Post #9
so and so

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Good point, Crusader. You see, Kil, it's actually the lack of socialism that's hurting your school program. Ask yourself, should a student such as yourself really have to go out and raise money - effectively whoring yourself - just to learn some music?

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folder icon   11-23-2007, 01:18 AM
Post #10
kiljaeden

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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
Good point, Crusader. You see, Kil, it's actually the lack of socialism that's hurting your school program. Ask yourself, should a student such as yourself really have to go out and raise money - effectively whoring yourself - just to learn some music?

Well, for one, it's not me, I done graditated from the dang-'der high school. Secondly, this isn't money to learn music, the program already exists, albeit it's kinda dying/being revived. This is money to go on trips and such. Earn rewards. Put the school on the map as a musically enlightened school to help the program not die and, dare I say it, grow. So the kids that actually want to go on the trips have to split the money with the kids that don't want to/can't.

And no, you shouldn't have to earn money to learn music. I think that music should be available to anyone that wants it. It completely sucks that anytime a school starts losing money, (among) the first place(s) they start siphoning money out of is the music program.

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folder icon   11-23-2007, 06:55 PM
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Well my elementary school became islamofascist. They're splitting the boys and girls into separate classes, because apparently this makes people smarter. I think it just makes them ill-prepared for the reality of life; there's more than one gender in the world.

As for siphoning money out of music programme first, its unfortunate but for a school... "Decrease math funding, or decrease music funding? Hmm..." Typically, math/english/science are the last things to go and when those start to go, the school is completely fucking useless. Governments should spend way more money on education as thats the road of opportunity for everyone.

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folder icon   11-26-2007, 05:28 PM
Post #12
kiljaeden

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra_punk
Well my elementary school became islamofascist. They're splitting the boys and girls into separate classes, because apparently this makes people smarter. I think it just makes them ill-prepared for the reality of life; there's more than one gender in the world.

I totally agree. That's anoher problem with education these days: they're not preparing children for real life. You give a kid an F on a test, the appropriate response is, "Okay, I should study more so next time I can get an A," not, "Mommy, my teacher gave me an F, fix it." Which is what happens. The best way for anyone to learn, including adults, is through experience. If they experience failure, they need to become raise their standard of education to at least clear the metaphorical bar, not lower the bar so that graduating kids are basically retarded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra_punk
As for siphoning money out of music programme first, its unfortunate but for a school... "Decrease math funding, or decrease music funding? Hmm..." Typically, math/english/science are the last things to go and when those start to go, the school is completely fucking useless. Governments should spend way more money on education as thats the road of opportunity for everyone.

No offense, but duh. It's ridiculous the kind of crap that educators have to deal with, underfunding being probably at the top of the list.

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folder icon   11-28-2007, 04:35 PM
Post #13
l.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra_punk
Well my elementary school became islamofascist. They're splitting the boys and girls into separate classes, because apparently this makes people smarter. I think it just makes them ill-prepared for the reality of life; there's more than one gender in the world.

Nonsense, I've attended single sex schools all through my education, and I know full well that there are two genders. There's the guys who're up for it and the guys who turn me down.

Fucking frigid fags.

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