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folder icon   01-13-2008, 12:26 PM
Leagelize it Post #1
Friend of Fidel

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This is not intended to be a discussion about wether pot should be legal or not.

Rather I want to discuss on the following question:

Does overzealous and or dogmatic attitude towards pot actually harm the pursuit of a really effective policy on drugs?

A common argument for its legalization is that pot is actually less harmfull than tobacco or alcohol. The dogma is that the substance is labeled as a drug and therefore any such argumentation is turned against the one endorsing that by referring to other more dangerous consumable substances. My point being that this destroys the reason of ideal communication for formulating the best possible policy for drugs. That's pretty much why currently the police spends its resources by jailing innocent pot-heads while at the same time the real crime behind "the traffic" remains intact.

There is no room for any radical rethinking of the policy when the political publicity is infested with dogmatism. It is certain that if alcohol and tobacco were invented now they would be labeled as drugs and yet anything less harmful cannot be relabeled as not-drug.

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folder icon   01-13-2008, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friend of Fidel
Does overzealous and or dogmatic attitude towards pot actually harm the pursuit of a really effective policy on drugs?

Eh, I'd say that your question is a little hard to approach. My suggestion would be, without an overzealous and/or dogmatic attitude towards pot (and other drugs), there would be hardly any drug policy in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friend of Fidel
The dogma is that the substance is labeled as a drug and therefore any such argumentation is turned against the one endorsing that by referring to other more dangerous consumable substances. My point being that this destroys the reason of ideal communication for formulating the best possible policy for drugs.

To go into depth with this statement you must view the differences and similarities between pot and tobacco and alcohol. Tabacco and alcohol are sometimes considered drugs, albeit legal. Pot being "newer" in the system has a much more restricted legality compared to the two older and much more common substances.

Now claiming that Pot is less harmful to you than tobacco or alcohol is a very debatable issue that, in my opinion, carries very little water. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7150274.stm a study of Pot has shown that it actually carries more toxins that cigarettes. Although they do say that Pot has a lower usage rate, arguably because of the effects and the limited availability of it.

With that said, I'd suggest that the radical, if dogmatic, approaches towards this drug is probably necessary to limit its usage. Regardless if it is less harmful than tobacco or alcohol, it still carries with it lethal consequences. I'm not opposed to reforming the drug policy to a more effective stance on limiting the production and selling, but the first step to get to this is busting the potheads.

Although I agree, that while tobacco and alcohol are not commonly thought of, if not labeled, as drugs that both should be. Since both have obvious harmful bodily effects. I'd suggest that both should be very much restricted. Yet just because these are restricted, there is not necessarily any "room" for cannabis to be introduced in a legal process.

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folder icon   01-14-2008, 05:45 PM
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I dont much care if it is legal or not, But they should maintain some constancy, By wich i mean that they should also illigalise tobacco and alcohol or legalise maruana.

Maby if The Company started to sell pot as they do alcohol.

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folder icon   01-14-2008, 05:56 PM
Post #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Thusaud
I dont much care if it is legal or not, But they should maintain some constancy, By wich i mean that they should also illigalise tobacco and alcohol or legalise maruana.

Maby if The Company started to sell pot as they do alcohol.


Well this is what I was getting at. In my opinion there is absolutely no reason to legalize cannabis for consumption. But I also believe that tobacco and alcohol need to be extremely restricted if not illegal as well.

However, seeing that tobacco and alcohol is so ingrained into the modern world still (hopefully the usage of both is going down) the likeliness of this happening is slim. Yet, just because tobacco and alcohol may not be illegal, there is absolutely no reason to legalize cannabis just because the other two are allowed.

Where would you put the bar? It would be impossible to restrict anything if you decided to go on that action. Cannabis is just as harmful as all the others, but as a newer drug has been extremely restricted. This probably will never change.

It's not so much that you are sacrificing consistency, it's more like stemming the blood loss from a wound in the system.

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folder icon   01-15-2008, 02:38 AM
Post #5
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I can only speak for the situation in the U.S. but...


The U.S. has a serious illicit drug problem. No conceivable barrier, whether it be region, ethinicity, occupation, income, religion, etc can block the flow of dangerous drugs into U.S. households. The drugs that cause 90% or more of the risk are cocaine, Methamphetamines(sp?), heroine, LSD and perscription meds. In order to fight this, pretty much all long-term studies have come up with two conclusions:

Decriminalize weed. Make it punishable by fine instead of jail or criminal restrictions. This will be just as effective in deterrent as our current laws, and it will greatly reduce the costs. At the same time, it will allow more resources to be focused on the bad drugs that I mentioned above.

Second, we should increase addiction treatment. Pretty much all experts and studies say this is a must.


The reason why these two things haven't been implemented is because of what is under discussion. The zealotry against weed HAS caused a stall in these implementations, and it is pretty much undeniable that that zealotry has held back good drug policies such as the ones I mentioned above.

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folder icon   01-15-2008, 04:13 AM
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speaking as someone who never tried marijuana or tobacco, I second Gaggin, wholeheartedly. Crusader, there's a reason prohibition ended. It was the single greatest mistake America made since the Civil War, and was the root cause of the modern mafia we have today. Pot was only ever made illegal in the first place as a way for southerners to punish Mexican immigrants, while the whites got to legally enjoy their whisky and spirits.

Everyone read Reefer Madness.

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folder icon   01-15-2008, 05:05 AM
Post #7
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Keep this in mind:

statistics have shown that males who "drink regularly" make 10% mroe money than their sober counterparts, as the social act makes them more socialable in society.

Also keep in mind that, while no correlation exists with females, we can all agree that those females that drink probably make more babies than those that don't, and making babies is what women are for anyway. Hurrah!

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folder icon   01-15-2008, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
speaking as someone who never tried marijuana or tobacco, I second Gaggin, wholeheartedly. Crusader, there's a reason prohibition ended. It was the single greatest mistake America made since the Civil War, and was the root cause of the modern mafia we have today. Pot was only ever made illegal in the first place as a way for southerners to punish Mexican immigrants, while the whites got to legally enjoy their whisky and spirits.

Everyone read Reefer Madness.


The American Civil War was a mistake?!

I think comparing the cannabis situation to prohibition is a little anachronistic and does not carry much weight with it. Reason being, the effects of alcohol on your body and beliefs back in the 20's-30's.

Anyway, I figured I'd be alone in my stance. I understand that people get what they want, regardless of whether it is illegal or not. I also understand that the system targets cannabis because it is rather common and that this potentially slows down the targeting of more dangerous drugs.

However, I do not believe that this is grounds for legalizing the drug. The effects are still very dangerous. From what I understand, cannabis has the hallucinogen effect similar to Opium (I may be wrong here, I've never tried any of these drugs) which had an interesting run in China, thus its illegalization there.

I still believe with the legalizing of cannabis you will have a snowball effect. Say once it is available, then people move on to cocaine and want to have it legalized because it is less dangerous than meth and the cocaine targeting is bogging down the legal system from targeting more dangerous drugs. Then cocaine is legalized and people move on to heroin and want meth legalized since it is less dangerous than heroin and the targeting of meth is bogging down the system, etc.

Decriminalizing it is an option I suppose, yet still a dangerous one at that. I'm not sure if it would be quite as effective as keeping it down, and is probably just another step for legalization.

Can't people just not take drugs?

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folder icon   01-15-2008, 03:57 PM
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people smoke weed because it feels good and is relatively safe. Many youth feel it's safer than alcohol, and prefer it for that reason. Cannabis really has over 40 different chemicals in it, with varying amount according to type. But I don't think any are hallucinogens. They just target your pleasure sensors, somewhere in your brain. The inebriating effects are about as dangerous as alcohol, maybe less, and the long term health hazards are about the same - it's just a question of which do you want to kill, your lungs or your liver? Oh, and the only way to take a lethal dose of cannabis is to smoke like 17 pounds in under what, ten minutes? Whereas people do die regularly from binge drinking.

The only reason cannabis isn't legal in the US today is because pharmeceuticals can't patent it. It's a weed, and would hurt their pain medication business. Instead companies are trying to isolate the various chemicals and brand them.

Oh, and Crusader, please try and explain to me how prohibition was so much different than now.

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folder icon   01-15-2008, 09:07 PM
Post #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
people smoke weed because it feels good and is relatively safe. Many youth feel it's safer than alcohol, and prefer it for that reason. Cannabis really has over 40 different chemicals in it, with varying amount according to type. But I don't think any are hallucinogens. They just target your pleasure sensors, somewhere in your brain. The inebriating effects are about as dangerous as alcohol, maybe less, and the long term health hazards are about the same - it's just a question of which do you want to kill, your lungs or your liver? Oh, and the only way to take a lethal dose of cannabis is to smoke like 17 pounds in under what, ten minutes? Whereas people do die regularly from binge drinking.

I think I already went into this issue. There ARE dangerous chemicals in the plant that you would smoke. There ARE serious negative side effects from smoking this. There ARE changes to your motor skills and normal movements.

I clearly said, that just because cannabis is more healthy (highly doubtful) than tobacco and alcohol does NOT mean that it should be legalized. Stricter restrictions on tobacco and alcohol? Absolutely. Honestly how can you use these products with the knowledge of what they actually do to your body?
Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
The only reason cannabis isn't legal in the US today is because pharmeceuticals can't patent it. It's a weed, and would hurt their pain medication business. Instead companies are trying to isolate the various chemicals and brand them.

/tinfoilhat
Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
Oh, and Crusader, please try and explain to me how prohibition was so much different than now.

I was not referring to the word prohibition, nor the meaning. I was referring to the American Prohibition on alcohol enacted in 1919 and repealed in 1933.

Comparing the cannabis problem to the prohibition problem is like comparing apples and oranges. First, it was a majority of Protestant people who made moves for the acts of prohibition in the United States. Alcohol being a very common drink used often (many times out of necessity) in the long history of the world, had an incredibly difficult transition from a perfectly legal to an illegal product. Crime rates and government spending went through the roof. It was also a Constitutional admendment.

Cannabis on the other hand is a newer widespread drug that was previously NOT ingrained into society. It is also not simply a United States problem, rather it is a world-wide issue with serious consequences. Cannabis is illegal through International Opium Convention of 1925 (hence to my reference to the similarities of cannabis and opium), the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937, the 1961 Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, the 1971 Convention on Psychotropic Substances, and the 1988 United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances. (pulled from Wikipedia for quick reference)

The two events are similar, but by no means true comparisons to the one or the other.

I'm still curious on why you think the American Civil War was a mistake!

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folder icon   01-16-2008, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Crusader~
I'm still curious on why you think the American Civil War was a mistake!

Why, shure it was a mistake, they should just have let the southerners leave and be done with them, would have saved a whole lot of life and allowed them to ban slavery while the southerners kept it as they wanted.

It would proberbly have rduced the number of mudered presidents to, by at least 25-50%

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folder icon   01-16-2008, 05:43 PM
Post #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Thusaud
Why, shure it was a mistake, they should just have let the southerners leave and be done with them, would have saved a whole lot of life and allowed them to ban slavery while the southerners kept it as they wanted.

It would proberbly have rduced the number of mudered presidents to, by at least 25-50%


A different topic and a different time.

Although I appreciate your witty remarks.

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folder icon   01-16-2008, 06:29 PM
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the civil war was a mistake not just of one side, but of both sides. Average citizens allowed themselves to get carried away with race politics, when the real war was over business interests. Most southern whites had no slaves and hurt just as much as slaves from the economic system of the time. Northern business interests used the war to invade economically after the war, buying up all sorts of businesses and dominating the south. Emotional scars ran deep as a result. An average of one black man was lynched once a week, every week, every year, from 1870 - 1950. The south and north still vote completely different from one another, issues about the confederate flag still linger over 120 years later... Not to mention all the senseless death in the war, all because each side thought they could quickly win.

Face it, Crusader, all wars are mistakes, at least from a humanitarian viewpoint.

as for Cannabis, yes it's bad for you. Where in the constitution does it say we all have to be healthy? Should we mandate exercise and a healthy diet also? Why the fuck should you or anyone else tell another american how to live healthily? Where in the constitution does it even say I have to be wise? Why can't I make poor decisions? if poor decisions that didn't directly harm anyone else became illegal, where would it end? Should it be illegal not to vote? Should it be illegal not to go to college? Should it be illegal to waste money on Iphone ringtones or expensive paper weights?

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folder icon   01-16-2008, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
the civil war was a mistake not just of one side, but of both sides. Average citizens allowed themselves to get carried away with race politics, when the real war was over business interests.

Hmm and I wonder why those business interests were even around? Oh thats right! Slavery was a huge economic issue. You're right it wasn't just about freeing the slaves, it was about regulating economic issues that were totally based on enslaving an entire ethnicity who had no rights, weren't even considered human, and were in constant bondage.

But regardless of how much you choose to blind yourself, the war did turn into freeing the slaves. Not just because of economic issues, but abolition movements really gained speed. And once Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclomation, the war did turn into freeing the slaves. Many people up North were not in favor of this idea, but like it or not the war turned into a war set on freeing slaves.
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Originally Posted by so and so
Most southern whites had no slaves and hurt just as much as slaves from the economic system of the time.

This is also true. Why then did thousands of poor white southerners take up arms against the Union if they were pretty much slaves themselves? Certainly there was no aspect of cultural pride or racist issues going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
Northern business interests used the war to invade economically after the war, buying up all sorts of businesses and dominating the south. Emotional scars ran deep as a result.

Undeniably true. Yet the economy was slowly rebuilt. It also didn't help that Southerners had NO form of a modern economy before the war, and their economy was slipping. What else was there to do?
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Originally Posted by so and so
An average of one black man was lynched once a week, every week, every year, from 1870 - 1950.

So the price of freedom is death and suffering? It sounds a whole lot like slavery. Atleast now the African American population had a fighting chance than what they had before. I hardly see this as a consequence of the war, more a consequence of racism.

Are you actually making a support for slavery here?
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Originally Posted by so and so
The south and north still vote completely different from one another,

I fail to see why this is such an issue.
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Originally Posted by so and so
issues about the confederate flag still linger over 120 years later... Not to mention all the senseless death in the war, all because each side thought they could quickly win.

Obviously you fail to comprehend this period of warfare. The price was not because each side thought they could win easily. It was because modern weaponry clashed with archaeic tactics. It became a war of attrition and a model for wars to come. World War I, World War II?
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Originally Posted by so and so
Face it, Crusader, all wars are mistakes, at least from a humanitarian viewpoint.

If all wars are mistakes, millions of African Americans would potentially still be in bondage. Even more Jews and ethnic races of Europe would still being massacred by the millions. I could go on.

Face it so and so, humanitarian issues are good and all, but war is undeniably inevitable. Saying anything different is just being delusional. To say the American Civil War was a mistake is quite an ignorant and blind thing to say.
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as for Cannabis, yes it's bad for you. Where in the constitution does it say we all have to be healthy? Should we mandate exercise and a healthy diet also? Why the fuck should you or anyone else tell another american how to live healthily? Where in the constitution does it even say I have to be wise? Why can't I make poor decisions? if poor decisions that didn't directly harm anyone else became illegal, where would it end? Should it be illegal not to vote? Should it be illegal not to go to college? Should it be illegal to waste money on Iphone ringtones or expensive paper weights?

I'm not sure where you got this from. I was merely pointing out the difference between the Prohibition on Alcohol in the 20s and 30s and the cannabis issues we deal with today.

I can't make you do anything you don't want to do. Whether I inferred that or not, there does need to be limitations on what people do. People must be controlled because they can not control themselves.

People desire to be told what to do, people need to be restrained. Otherwise we'd be having more wars, which are apparent mistakes.

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folder icon   01-17-2008, 01:24 PM
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"Slavery was a huge economic issue."

Yes, but as we both agreed, it only benefitted a few people down south. The majority of southerners benefitted neither from seceding or going to war.

"Why then did thousands of poor white southerners take up arms against the Union if they were pretty much slaves themselves? Certainly there was no aspect of cultural pride or racist issues going on?"

Dude, I already said this. They let themselves get carried away by race politics. This was their mistake, born part of bigotry, wanting to be better than something, partly out of hatred of the north for judging them, and partly due to ignorance of other economic activities that wouldn't involve slavery - that northern businesses started down south after the way. I'm not blind to anything. What you're blind to is that, all these southerners getting angry would never have led to a war without the support and the direction of the southern elite, who triggered the whole thing. There could have been militias and "terrorist" attacks, but they never would've been able to maintain a large, supplied army.

"I hardly see this as a consequence of the war, more a consequence of racism."

It was a direct result of the war and the premature end of reconstruction. One can argue that freedom was inevitable, and that slave conditions were worse before. You could even try to argue that the situations was so FUBAR that only a war could fix anything.The Civil War ended slavery, making a statement that such injustices cannot prevail in our country. Without the war it would've continued, until no longer economically viable. I also know that the only ways to have avoided war would have been for the south not to secede, or for the north to accept it, and either of these scenarios would be problematic. All I'm saying is that the positive aspects of the war came at huge cost, and that they might have been avoided had enough clever, rational people found another alternative - such as economic development down south - and if the mass populace hadn't so eagerly welcomed the fight. I'm not arguing in favor of slavery. I'm just saying the entire country made the mistake of getting angry instead of working towards a peaceable solution.

"The price was not because each side thought they could win easily. It was because modern weaponry clashed with archaeic tactics. It became a war of attrition and a model for wars to come. World War I, World War II? "

The Civil War was started only because both sides thought they would quickly win. Modern weaponry with archaic tactics were used, but this is a non sequitor - this is what caused the death, but it was also what led people to believe the war would be won soon, and they wouldn't have been used if people could've foreseen the results. WW1 & 2 were also wars where the warring parties thought they could quickly win in one big strike. In any of these wars, had the participants foreseen the results and costs, they would've all been avoided. You could argue that it was impossible at the time to foresee the cost of a new, modern war, but at the same time, no one took the question that seriously did they? That they couldn't foresee something doesn't make it any less of a mistake.

You make a good point about Germany. Had they never begun WWII, just how many Jews and minorities would they have killed? It's an appalling idea, and raises the issue of why we go to war. Would America and others have invaded them just to stop a holocaust, if they hadn't been attacked first? Probably not. In such a case, economic sanctions and international pressure wouldn't have done a damn thing either. Really, Nazi Germany was a singularly awful event that changed all the rules. I think, given time, the Germans themselves might snap out of the horrors they'd done, but even then, an overzealous right wing party can usually wrest all influence from moderates, as seen so often in the Middle East. The question has to do with which is worse: a war so horrible and nasty that it resulted in deaths all over the world, numbering probably close to 50,000,000. Or, allow a holocaust to continue, resulting in 20,000,000 deaths over the next couple decades, all of them Jews and minorites. Again, the situation was FUBAR, much more than America in the 1850's.

"People must be controlled because they can not control themselves. People desire to be told what to do, people need to be restrained."

This argument here just comes out of nowhere, has no examples, no evidence to back it up, and it just downright scares me - more than the weird sexual things DJ says. Where did this come from? How did you come up with it? This argument really needs alot more backing up.

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folder icon   01-17-2008, 02:15 PM
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Lazy moderators... (a little off topic don't you think?)

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folder icon   01-17-2008, 06:45 PM
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Well, on topic... there's also a spill effect from the American war on drugs into Canada. It has seeped into the reigning tories, making them believe that the war on drugs strategy actually works (despite the report released by the US government recently about how horribly it failed and cost them countless billions of dollars). They clamp down on the decriminalization movement, safe injection sites, addiction aid centres and instead focus on heavy-hand policing combined with mandatory sentencing.

Otherwise, the border does shield Canada from some of the zealous movements. Medical marijuana is legal in canada... some people are allowed to grow it and there is a Supreme Court case going on about expanding who you can buy weed from and who can grow it.

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folder icon   01-19-2008, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Crusader~
If all wars are mistakes, millions of African Americans would potentially still be in bondage. Even more Jews and ethnic races of Europe would still being massacred by the millions.


Then all wars are misstakes, since millions of Africans and Americans is in bondage. Jews and ethnic races is still being massacred by the millions, all due to war!

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folder icon   01-20-2008, 12:10 PM
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so and so

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what it comes down to is that people are one big mistake.

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folder icon   01-20-2008, 03:38 PM
Post #20
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My argument is that alcohol is one of the THE most dangerous drugs and yet it's legal.

Pot has been proven relatively harmless sure you'll cough a bit but who's died from coughing?
The worst thing you'll get is the munchies which in my opnion is not worse than dying from a pickled liver/withdrawls.
Alcohol is one of the only drugs that you can die from the withdrawls of not having it (this is if you're an alcoholic basically) making it one of if not the most addicting drugs out there.

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folder icon   01-30-2008, 04:27 PM
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But alcohol in most forms tastes a lot nicer than pot.

And it doesn't make smoke so you don't get any harmful second hand alcohol effects.

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folder icon   02-01-2008, 09:39 PM
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I find most people that smoke pot are retarded anyways. Oh, and stop comparing marijuana to alcohol please. Drinking has been culturally integrated with society for so long that its removal is almost impossible. Cigarettes are slowly being phased out through their retarded excise taxations and the access to information about its effects. Go look at some studies comparing the % of smokers 30 years ago to smokers now. Less and less kids are becoming addicted to cigarettes.

My personal stance is anti-legalization. I don't drink, smoke, nor do any drugs. I don't see the point in doing them, never have met an individual who could provide me a good reason either. On the other hand, they either harm the body or impair motor skills. I understand people have some type of cultural attachment to whatever it is they do, but I think it's pretty pointless in the end. Ultimately, I don't really care. I don't think people should do it, but if they do, I just look the other way. Most cops don't give a shit if they find marijuana on you anyways. Most cops where I live just confiscate it and let you go.

Edit: The main thing that hurts weed is stuff like this. White Christian politicians can't agree with the nigras and their jokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWhUqo9Aivs

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folder icon   02-02-2008, 10:23 PM
Post #23
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Pot is dangerous so it should be illegal. Alcohol is proven more dangerous. So there is a rather" silly borderline" between legal and illegal at least in Norway. But I do not think we should allow pot, due it its damages on society. I think we have to live with alcohol since it is, as DJ points out, so in bedded in our culture, but we should try to limit it. I am certain that if alcohol was something introduced to the culture now, it would be illegal. Perhaps the same with different types of food. Its not legal to smoke pot in Norway. If they catch you with pot you get like 500$ fine and thats it, but thats very unlikely unless your smoking it in a park or at a festival. So I think its perfect. A low and unlikely penalty but still illegal.

On the other side the " its against the law " personal border seems like a joke when 1/3 of your friends smoke pot and you dont get that " Its against the law its really bad", when its less bad than alcohol.

"Cosy drinking" ( A few units of alcohol ) is marvelous and makes every situation better.I am drinking ( Usually whisky/wine) and I have smoked. Just do it for another kind of buzz and its fun. Thats it. Like playing a computer game is "wasted" time, but it was fun while it lasted.

Pot should not be legal.

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folder icon   02-03-2008, 02:25 PM
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saying pot isn't imbedded in US culture sounds pretty stupid, considering it's our leading cash crop.

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folder icon   02-03-2008, 03:51 PM
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It is embedded, but its not legal. When you first cross that border its hard to do anything about, as we see with alcohol which would not be legal had it been introduced today.

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folder icon   02-03-2008, 04:17 PM
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OMG, how is this so hard to understand. Yes, if alcohol were introduced today it would be illegal - and it would also be a mistake!!!!

You can't just deny people their drugs or they go crazy and start illegal businesses. You're creating organized crime that wouldn't exist otherwise, and all the problems associated with it. Legalize marijuana for chrissakes. Don't base laws on impossible principals, base it on what's practical. America's got the highest prison population, and murder rate in the free world. What else do you even need to know?

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folder icon   02-03-2008, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
OMG, how is this so hard to understand. Yes, if alcohol were introduced today it would be illegal - and it would also be a mistake!!!!

You can't just deny people their drugs or they go crazy and start illegal businesses. You're creating organized crime that wouldn't exist otherwise, and all the problems associated with it. Legalize marijuana for chrissakes. Don't base laws on impossible principals, base it on what's practical. America's got the highest prison population, and murder rate in the free world. What else do you even need to know?


I'm against legalization because it isn't beneficial in any way, but it's detrimental in many. I don't have a problem with someone who tokes up in their house and stays there, but some idiots get behind the wheel and do stupid shit. Same with alcohol.

Oh, and please stop thinking the mafia is destroying American society through the black market of weed. Give me a fucking break, even I know you're not that stupid. If you legalize weed you're not really doing jack shit. As I already said, most cops understand weed isn't any worse than alcohol and will usually just confiscate it from you. If you want to talk about mafias and gangs ruining our society, then maybe you should switch over to coke, meth, or heroine.

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folder icon   02-23-2008, 01:09 AM
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You misspelled "Legalize It" in the title because you smoke too much dope you hippie.

Boy I could use a toke.

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folder icon   02-23-2008, 06:35 PM
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DJ, Marijuana is certainly big business, it's america's leading cash crop. This means there's definately a mafia connection. legalizing it would be a major blow for them, but you're right they'd still exist, and those other drugs are nasty enough that they should be illegal. Small amounts of heroin can still be deadly, as can all those others. But it should be illegal to sell it, not use it. Users should be treated, not put in jail. There was a good news show once about heroin addicts in the Netherlands. They go to a doctor controled lab to get their fix on a regular basis, and when they come down from their high, they can manage normal jobs. So, THROUGH A DOCTOR, it could/should be legal for certain addicts to get this fix, as the safest way to encourage users to do so responsibly, cutting down on crime, accidents, etc. It could also be a better way to interview addicts and educate kids not to become them.

Saying legalization has no benefit flies in the face of so many facts, and everything I've already said, it really makes you appear as the stupid one.

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folder icon   02-25-2008, 11:00 AM
Post #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
DJ, Marijuana is certainly big business, it's america's leading cash crop. This means there's definately a mafia connection. legalizing it would be a major blow for them, but you're right they'd still exist, and those other drugs are nasty enough that they should be illegal. Small amounts of heroin can still be deadly, as can all those others. But it should be illegal to sell it, not use it. Users should be treated, not put in jail. There was a good news show once about heroin addicts in the Netherlands. They go to a doctor controled lab to get their fix on a regular basis, and when they come down from their high, they can manage normal jobs. So, THROUGH A DOCTOR, it could/should be legal for certain addicts to get this fix, as the safest way to encourage users to do so responsibly, cutting down on crime, accidents, etc. It could also be a better way to interview addicts and educate kids not to become them.

Saying legalization has no benefit flies in the face of so many facts, and everything I've already said, it really makes you appear as the stupid one.


So you're going to force users to attend mandatory drug related centers in order to get their fix? Yeah I see alot of people going to toke up at the docs when their drugs are legal to use.

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folder icon   02-25-2008, 02:38 PM
Post #31
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No, for certain drugs, it'd only be legal at the doctor's. Addicts go voluntarily because it's free, and it's the safest way to get the drug. It'd administered by doctors, who are able to order it legally, meaning the dosage and chemicals are as safe as possible - no more O.D.'s or drugs laced with other drugs, etc. It's been successful enough in the Netherlands that they still do it decades later.

That's how I envision a responsible plan for heroin, or crack. Cocaine and Meth should be easier to get over in traditional clinics. Marijuana's not nearly as lethal or addictive, and I see it as equal to alcohol. If people want to do it, they should be able to, although there should be strict laws about selling to minors, how it's sold, and driving while high.

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folder icon   06-03-2008, 10:45 PM
Post #32
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i didn't read shit(in this thread) however the constitution originally protected our right to drugs. So that should be enough.

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