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Democratic Convention  
folder icon   08-29-2008, 12:45 PM
Democratic Convention Post #1
Mr. Black

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The speakers were good, Obama was AMAZING.


Most of the speeches were typical "go obama" "vote democrat" but there was a few Aces. at one point they brought out 4 Average Joe citizens to talk mainly about how Bush Administration failed and ruined their lives. Hillary and Bill both gave a speech supporting Obama but neither one looked happy about it. Michelle spoke and did pretty good, so did her brother. A lot about how their father was a hard worker who took care of their family.



overall it was damn good. but i still dont know who i will vote for.

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folder icon   08-29-2008, 02:03 PM
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Kjell Thusaud

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Obama is defenetly the lesser evil, Now that Hillary is out of the game.

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folder icon   08-29-2008, 07:40 PM
Post #3
so and so

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"overall it was damn good. but i still dont know who i will vote for."

A vote for McCain tells the Rep party they can get away with anything.

A vote for Obama tells the world we realize we made a mistake and we regret it.

that alone may not be enough to convince you, so let's look at this.

The main campaign promises of Obama are to turn our economy around, get out of Iraq, and provide cheaper healthcare. Chances are, if he's elected these will be the most attainable goals for his administration. If you like this, vote for him.

McCain's campaign promises are to stay in Iraq until the job is done. He's also pro life and would have a good chance to overturn Roe v Wade. His promises to improve the environment, security, and lower cost of healthcare is all just pillowtalk - never trust a Rep on these issues. His longstanding issues with campaign finance also goes against his own party and I doubt it'd happen. If you think we can and should fix Iraq over a long period, and you're pro life, and you don't give a damn about the economy, then vote for McCain.

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folder icon   08-30-2008, 02:46 AM
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K0d0

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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
and you don't give a damn about the economy, then vote for McCain.
Oh really? From what I can tell, the utterings of protectionism from Obama is certainly not something that is needed in these days of recession, I would say.

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folder icon   08-30-2008, 03:53 AM
Post #5
so and so

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Kodo, I don't know the specifics of your country's policies, but does a European really have much ground complaining of such things?

This is one of those issues I really need to study much more in depth before commenting on. Regardless, I have enough faith in Obama's intellect to figure he won't do anything that seriously hurts our economy. McCain, on the other hand, starting another war....

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folder icon   08-30-2008, 06:44 AM
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Mr. Black

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I think a girl can decide if she wants a child, such as if she was raped or is a teen. But I think if the girl is going to constantly get pregnant and terminate the pregancy something should be done to prevent this.
I know numerous soldiers who have mental anxiety over the idea of the war ending, not because they like the war; but because if it ends now everything would be meaningless (all the deaths and energry devoted)

So i really still don't know.

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folder icon   08-30-2008, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
Kodo, I don't know the specifics of your country's policies, but does a European really have much ground complaining of such things?
What do you mean?
Quote:
This is one of those issues I really need to study much more in depth before commenting on. Regardless, I have enough faith in Obama's intellect to figure he won't do anything that seriously hurts our economy. McCain, on the other hand, starting another war....

Both Obama and McCain have some pretty protectionistic arguments, but Obama is more in that camp. What the US needs right now might be an end to Iraq, better healthcare, change and whatnot. But what it really, really needs is an economist who has a better shot at turning the finances around. Protectionism as an argument has very strong populist strain ("we need to protect the people against outside badguys" and so on), but it will only slow down global trade and worsen the halt of the American economy.

And quite frankly, you cant praise the intellect of the one while doubting the other. McCain is obviously also a very well educated and learned man and some of his arguments on international policies certainly hold more water than Obama's. That said, in the eyes of the rest of the world, the American president is all about image and character and there Obama could be crucial, despite some of his policies.

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folder icon   08-30-2008, 03:29 PM
Post #8
so and so

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Kodo, a couple things to keep in perspective:

1. Presidential candidates are always full of shit. They'll say whatever to pander to the right audience. Especially in primaries, Dem's swing left and Rep's swing right. Then they come back in the middle.

2. I always thought European countries subsidize agriculture in some form or other, to help the local producers. These days things may be different with the Union, but what about nations outside the union? I need to look up the history of free trade... At any rate, every nation has to balance tariffs vs domestic unemployment. The mentality that cheap goods is all that matters is what makes Walmart a scourge across North & South America.

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folder icon   08-30-2008, 03:43 PM
Post #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so

1. Presidential candidates are always full of shit. They'll say whatever to pander to the right audience. Especially in primaries,

Well, the US is certainly not exclusive in that regard . But as I said, the arguments put forth by the presidential candidates are not very pleasing from an economic point of view. Sure, this could be because the emotional and populistic characteristic of protectionism could earn them more votes, but it does set a certain tone to what they would do if they gained the office.
Quote:
2. I always thought European countries subsidize agriculture in some form or other, to help the local producers.
Indeed they do, and to an almost sick degree. This has led to problems for the third world countries to sell off enough of their produce and since it is often the only kind of resource they have (of any quantity), the tarriffs of the European Union is one of the reasons for the inequalities of the world.

Of course, extremely strong political groups have vested interests in keeping the agricultural subsidies and because of this they remain.

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folder icon   09-01-2008, 11:39 AM
Post #10
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K0d0 is right about protectionism, Obama is backed by left-leaning unions and blue collar workers, so he has to badmouth NAFTA. The stupid thing is that you can badmouth NAFTA in Mexico and in Canada, Americans think they have it rough just because they don't know how to regulate their economy properly. Free trade is good, increasing protectionism bad in the long run.

European Union has a retarded agricultural subsidy system creating one of the highest food prices in the world (but europeans also have lots of money to spend compared to rest of the world). Due to their agricultural subsidies (rather than production quotas) they have mountains of food they have to throw away... usually into africa which depresses local prices and drives black farmers into poverty. It's similar to US food aid which is sold to africans at a price that undercuts local farmers (what you thought americans gave it away for free?). Since Bush failed to pass legislation that freed up US money to allowed to buy foreign food, all US Food aid is American food and thus damage foreign economies via dumping. Dumping is sometimes a good thing, like France dumping wine into Canada but not in this case.

Obama's NAFTA talk was completely hot air. He's a politician and he's just talking out his ass. Most of McCain's hardcore right-wing talk is probably bullshit too. McCain was never that hardcore and never really that right wing. The thing is, Obama has policies he'll probably never be able to pass, but given the choice... failing to do the right thing or succeeding at doing the wrong thing... i'll pick the former (Obama, in case you right-wing nutbags weren't sure who i was referring to).

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folder icon   09-01-2008, 03:39 PM
Post #11
so and so

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you're not gonna pick anyone, you're canadian! I'm gonna pick Obama, and you're gonna sit there, and wring your hands.

But I see what you're saying.

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