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folder icon   08-28-2006, 04:56 PM
BC Class Talents preview Post #1
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Well this is pretty exciting news to me atleast. A nice peek at what the talents and some of the abilities will probably look like in the expansion.

Its pretty obvious that 35/21/5 will be the cookie cutting warrior build.

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folder icon   08-28-2006, 09:02 PM
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no hunter news

even so, good stuff. the fact that rogues have an ability called shiv and a talent called mutilate is awesome. who cares what they do, they names are sweet.

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folder icon   08-29-2006, 10:28 PM
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So far all the classes are getting some nice stuf, I'm sure they will all still whine about it though, on the class forums.

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folder icon   08-29-2006, 10:46 PM
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lol, have you looked at the warrior forums or the general forums lately? warriors will not shut up about TM being moved.

mostly everyone else has been positive though, which is surprising--im used to blizz forum fans whining about absolutely anything, and i mean ANYTHING. initially there were some whiners about the mage talent water elemental and the warlock talent fel guard, but that seems to have gone away. in the mages case it damn well should have--mages have been pleading for water elemental for a long time.

still no hunter news

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folder icon   08-30-2006, 03:11 AM
Post #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Planet_Buster
lol, have you looked at the warrior forums or the general forums lately? warriors will not shut up about TM being moved.

mostly everyone else has been positive though, which is surprising--im used to blizz forum fans whining about absolutely anything, and i mean ANYTHING. initially there were some whiners about the mage talent water elemental and the warlock talent fel guard, but that seems to have gone away. in the mages case it damn well should have--mages have been pleading for water elemental for a long time.

still no hunter news


well, moving TM was a dumb move. However, I'm more concerned with vitality- having to spend 40 points to get it, and then only being a 5% increase? thats super gay.

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folder icon   08-30-2006, 12:03 PM
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Strawberry on the Shortcake

yeah, vitality was originally a 10% increase. that i can live with. 5% sucks balls though.

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folder icon   08-31-2006, 06:02 PM
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I don't think moving TM was all that bad. It'll encourage warriors to at least consider delving into the def. tree, plus def. warriors always had problems with generating enough rage, so this'll help them out a bit.

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folder icon   09-01-2006, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaggin
I don't think moving TM was all that bad. It'll encourage warriors to at least consider delving into the def. tree, plus def. warriors always had problems with generating enough rage, so this'll help them out a bit.

Not really; intelligent warriors will still go into the def tree because talents like 10% armor and imp bloodrage and last stand are still great in pvp situations. And tactical really doesnt help with rage gen, since you rarely switch stances when tanking anyways, especially since most high end content hits you hard enough that rage isn't really an issue. Tactical is definetly more useful in pvp and perhaps pve dps situations, where you need to be versatile in order to access all of your offensive abilities.

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folder icon   09-06-2006, 02:55 AM
Post #9
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Blizzard sucks at working with the defensive tree. I still don't see anything past Defiance that I'll need to be MT. Even defiance is iffy once I get my TF.

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folder icon   09-06-2006, 04:20 AM
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what?

vitality, devastate? vitality = necessary in x-pack, guaranteed.

And seriously fuck warriors, I'm glad they got their shit changed to Prot, man it must really really suck not to have all the good talents in 2 trees huh?

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folder icon   09-06-2006, 03:20 PM
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vitality may have been changed to 5% but its probably still worth picking up. and devastate is an awesome tanking ability. if it still has no cooldown, hell, tanking might become too ease--5 sunders then just spam devastate. focused rage is really good too, especially in combination with things like improved sunder and improved HS. also, one-handed weapon spec is up there.

im glad they finally changed defiance to 3 points instead of 5. thats been rumored for a while.

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folder icon   09-07-2006, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Jester
Blizzard sucks at working with the defensive tree. I still don't see anything past Defiance that I'll need to be MT. Even defiance is iffy once I get my TF.


lol,

I'm going to laugh when tanks who dont have vitality, improved defensive stance, and shield mastery die by the dozen.

And devastate is most likely going to be a must have for aggro-intensive fights

DW: It's not the fact that all the "good talents" arent in one tree; to me it's the fact that the talents don't make sense where they are placed. I bet a lot of rogues would be pissed off if say, master of deception was moved into say, the second tier of combat. It just doesnt make sense there. Personally, even if I go for a DPS build, it's not going to be that much of an inconvenience for me even where it is placed now. I just don't like when talents arent in the right trees.

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folder icon   09-08-2006, 04:02 AM
Post #13
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Like Opportunity being in sub? Not frustrating at all!

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folder icon   09-09-2006, 07:02 AM
Post #14
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Meh. It all depends. having to go 40 points into defensive to get a 5% stam increase is pretty fucking shitty no matter how you roll the dice. As for Devastate, well I can't really say yet. I don't play the beta and I haven't seen any kind of numerical threat value associated with the skill. I mean, let's say Shield Slam was the new devastate. You didn't know anything about it, all it said was that "I generate threat!" You'd think it'd be nice, but it actually isn't worth a damn.

As for vitality, that depends on whatall it will work with. I HIGHLY doubt it'll be anything more than a happy-face buffer zone for healers. Depends alot on the itemization I suppose. Also, will it work with buffs such as flasks?

It's all speculation, but I can pretty much guarentee you full prot will not be required. WoW has been out for 2 years and they never made Prot necessary, just marginally ok. I don't see why BC would change it all. I don't think it should be necessary either. I don't wanna have to give up 50% of the game merely so my guild can do the other 50%.

I wish blizzard would start putting in skill checks instead of fucking gear and resistance checks.

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folder icon   09-10-2006, 05:04 PM
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I don't know what else to say except you're completely wrong.

5% HP will be necessary, toughness is pretty much already necessary for your MT unless you're a huge idiot, and shield slam is $$.

oh and try zoning into naxx? there's about 1 resist check, 1 gear check, and one bank check.

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folder icon   09-10-2006, 10:40 PM
Post #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwolf
I don't know what else to say except you're completely wrong.

5% HP will be necessary, toughness is pretty much already necessary for your MT unless you're a huge idiot, and shield slam is $$.

oh and try zoning into naxx? there's about 1 resist check, 1 gear check, and one bank check.



Why is will it be necessary? What am I missing? Toughness is useful, not necessary. Shield Slam can suck on my asshole.

As for Naxx, that's your Point of View. On my server we haven't been farming BWL for a year, almost everything is a gearcheck for us.

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folder icon   09-11-2006, 06:02 PM
Post #17
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Blizzard designs the hardest encounters around assuming raiders will min-max their gear, consumables, and talents. If you are unwilling to do so you are hurting yourself. Patchwerk in full T2 without any toughness tanks... well ouch to that.

and no, it's not a point of view, it's how I know blizzard designs encounters. You're hurting yourself without prot tanks.

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folder icon   09-11-2006, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwolf
Blizzard designs the hardest encounters around assuming raiders will min-max their gear, consumables, and talents. If you are unwilling to do so you are hurting yourself. Patchwerk in full T2 without any toughness tanks... well ouch to that.

and no, it's not a point of view, it's how I know blizzard designs encounters. You're hurting yourself without prot tanks.



Word. I've played a warrior since beta and through release, and I've been all specs and played in all capacities. There is a huge difference when tanking as protection, and not. Basically, every time you lose aggro, or die when tanking anot not prot, you have to ask yourself, "Would I have died if I was prot? Would I have kept aggro?" I think the new talents emphasize this more than ever, with things like 30% increased damage absorbtion on your shield, 6% decreased spell damage taken, and devastate, which might arguably be the best aggro ability in the game. If something is of use to you when tanking, and you are a main tank or a consistent off tank... why not get it? I know priests that are full shadow specced and still really good at healing, but that doesnt change the fact that if they were specced for healing they would heal a shitload better.

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folder icon   09-16-2006, 05:25 AM
Post #19
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A warrior that doesn't switch stances is a useless warrior. Even when tanking you will sometimes need to switch to battle and beserker stance, particularly for a hamstring. In PvP this is especially important. Devastate really doesn't seem all that great to me, ya it holds rage, but how much better is it than sunder armor? I mean, tanks will sunder on several targets to hold them in place, how we know that imp. sunder will be just as effective as devastate? And there's nothing to hold aggro in a mob of monsters like whirlwinding(I prefer it to Mortal Strike in pvp too) to get that damage out. Not only do I switch to this stance when tanking, I also switch from a 1h/sheild to a 2h to do it too.


And are they going to abolish gnomes altogether in an upcoming patch? that would be a great patch....

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folder icon   09-17-2006, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaggin
A warrior that doesn't switch stances is a useless warrior. Even when tanking you will sometimes need to switch to battle and beserker stance, particularly for a hamstring. In PvP this is especially important. Devastate really doesn't seem all that great to me, ya it holds rage, but how much better is it than sunder armor? I mean, tanks will sunder on several targets to hold them in place, how we know that imp. sunder will be just as effective as devastate? And there's nothing to hold aggro in a mob of monsters like whirlwinding(I prefer it to Mortal Strike in pvp too) to get that damage out. Not only do I switch to this stance when tanking, I also switch from a 1h/sheild to a 2h to do it too.


And are they going to abolish gnomes altogether in an upcoming patch? that would be a great patch....


Since when do warriors switch stances? About the only time I switch stances is to use zerker rage to dodge a fear.

Devastate. This is a fickle matter. It renews sunder and is an instant attack. That in itself is worthless. The ONLY way this talent will be worth a damn is if it generates WAY WAY more threat than Sunder armor. Sunder armor is the global cooldown used while tanking. I don't give a rats ass if it deals damage or renews sunder, simply using the ability has to generate a shitload more threat than sunder or it's worthless. I have yet to see anyone attach a numerical value to devastate threatwise, so I still am wary of how useful it actually is.

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folder icon   09-18-2006, 09:05 PM
Post #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Jester
Since when do warriors switch stances? About the only time I switch stances is to use zerker rage to dodge a fear.

Devastate. This is a fickle matter. It renews sunder and is an instant attack. That in itself is worthless. The ONLY way this talent will be worth a damn is if it generates WAY WAY more threat than Sunder armor. Sunder armor is the global cooldown used while tanking. I don't give a rats ass if it deals damage or renews sunder, simply using the ability has to generate a shitload more threat than sunder or it's worthless. I have yet to see anyone attach a numerical value to devastate threatwise, so I still am wary of how useful it actually is.



considering that sunder armor by itself isn't that big of an aggro generator, I'm willing to be a lot that devastate is a lot more substantial threat. Especially considering that it is the 41-point talent, and that it gets more aggro for every application of sunder armor. I'm not saying I know any numbers, but I'm willing to bet it will be very very useful. Even now, warriors who only use sunders cant hold aggro over good tanks, who use revenge every time its up, and shield slam. The only reason sunder is still viable is cause it has no cooldown, and stacks, which in turn increases its aggro. Even if devastate only deals as much aggro as 1 rank of Sunder armor, when you have 5 sunders on a target that would still be 5 times the threat in one attack.

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folder icon   09-19-2006, 01:13 PM
Post #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwolf
what?

vitality, devastate? vitality = necessary in x-pack, guaranteed.

And seriously fuck warriors, I'm glad they got their shit changed to Prot, man it must really really suck not to have all the good talents in 2 trees huh?


Hey, they could be mages, and have all the good talents in one tree.

I mean, is anyone not frost these days? Luckily my shadow priest seems to fuck them up pretty good.

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folder icon   09-19-2006, 03:02 PM
Post #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Jester
Since when do warriors switch stances? About the only time I switch stances is to use zerker rage to dodge a fear.


So you don't switch stances to grab an overpower, then back to zerker and fit in a WW before the next MS, or bloodthirst or whatever? Never disarmed anyone in pvp? Never fall out of combat with rage left, see another enemy and jump into battlestance to charge?

I mean that's all I do in PvP is switch stances, especially solo pvp.

Not like the new placement of TM is THAT big of deal anyway. The talents in arms and fury are pretty mediocre after the 31 pointer.

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folder icon   09-20-2006, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaggin
Hey, they could be mages, and have all the good talents in one tree.

I mean, is anyone not frost these days? Luckily my shadow priest seems to fuck them up pretty good.

Uhh, Fire is the flavor of the month spec for raiding actually.

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folder icon   09-20-2006, 09:30 PM
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Crusader, I was talking about tactical mastery in relation to tanking.

Fire spec is better in Naxx.

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folder icon   09-21-2006, 01:35 AM
Post #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwolf
Uhh, Fire is the flavor of the month spec for raiding actually.

Oh ya, great for raiding I'm sure, as is Prot spec for warriors. But this a PVP game, why don't they fucking make it more pvp-oriented? It's actually been quite a long time since I've seen anything but a frost mage in battlegrounds. As for leveling/grinding, it was quite frustrating when my warrior was 52 taking the same amount of time to kill 1 mob in Eastern Plaguelands while frost mages the same level were killing 8 at a time.

It would be nice if Blizz could make the Prot spec a viable choice in PvP. Even the most epicc'ed out prot warriors don't cut it in BGs. Meanwhile I'm leveling my shadow priest, mages don't stand a chance against her.

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folder icon   09-21-2006, 04:28 PM
Post #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaggin
But this a PVP game, why don't they fucking make it more pvp-oriented?
Uh, what?

Pretty sure Blizzard puts no effort into their PvP game, and a lot of effort into their PvE game.

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folder icon   09-22-2006, 01:25 AM
Post #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaggin


It would be nice if Blizz could make the Prot spec a viable choice in PvP. Even the most epicc'ed out prot warriors don't cut it in BGs. Meanwhile I'm leveling my shadow priest, mages don't stand a chance against her.


That's funny, I know a tank with almost full T3, and he is prot specced... noone can kill him in pvp, no one. He just shield slams everyone and it does a shitton of damage since it is dependent of block value. Pretty crazy. And, if you have at least one healer as a prot warrior, you can take on a platoon.

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folder icon   09-25-2006, 09:26 AM
Post #29
Dark Jester

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silencer-7
That's funny, I know a tank with almost full T3, and he is prot specced... noone can kill him in pvp, no one. He just shield slams everyone and it does a shitton of damage since it is dependent of block value. Pretty crazy. And, if you have at least one healer as a prot warrior, you can take on a platoon.

Eh, using the same logic, Someone with DPS gear from Naxx and a nasty 2hander could probably perform better. Everyone knows that a warrior performs only as well as his gear and his healers.

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folder icon   09-26-2006, 04:59 AM
Post #30
Silencer-7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Jester
Eh, using the same logic, Someone with DPS gear from Naxx and a nasty 2hander could probably perform better. Everyone knows that a warrior performs only as well as his gear and his healers.


I agree; I would hope that a dps-geared dps-specced warrior would be able to do more damage than a prot-specced tank. However, my point was to respond to Gaggin, who said that prot-specced warriors won't "cut it" in bg's. While they wont be the unstoppable killing machines dps warriors are, they can still do a good amount of damage and just.. not die. And really, what more could you ask for? Prot is designed to be a defensive tree, it's primary functions are to help you stay alive, and get aggro, both of which it helps you do with a lot of success. If you can do some dps in pvp in addition to this, then great. Like I said, with good tanking gear, a tank's dps can actually be pretty substantial. Howev,er if you want to solely tear people's faces off... thats what the fury and arms trees are there for. Personally, If I am tanking a lot though, which I plan on doing and personally find a lot of fun in, I see no point to not invest pretty intensively in prot.


Speaking of warriors, we got some mini-changes today. Overall, some pretty good stuff. Details are:

Arms
* Axe Specialization – Renamed “Poleaxe Specialization”: Now increases crit chance with Axes and Polearms by 1/2/3/4/5%.
* Mace Specialization – Now “Gives your melee attacks a chance to stun your target for 3 sec and generate 2 rage when using a Mace.”
* Polearm Specialization – Replaced with "Weapon Mastery”: “Increases skill with all weapons by 2 and increases your chance to resist Disarm effects by an additional 25/50%.”

Fury
* Rampage – Cooldown removed, rage cost increased to 30, description changed.

Protection
* Vitality – Now also increases your total Strength by 2/4/6/8/10%


---------------------------------------------

Pretty awesome changes overall. I still wish vitality was 10% sta instead of this new 5% sta 10% str bit, but hey... still chance for a change. Release wont be for another two months at least.

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folder icon   09-26-2006, 05:57 PM
Post #31
~Crusader~

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I am very happy with weapon mastery. The 50% chance to resist a disarm=awesome, and the 4 to all weapon skills, while isn't gamebreaking is always nice to have. Now I wont have to waste 2 points into imp hamstring.

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folder icon   09-26-2006, 07:56 PM
Post #32
Silencer-7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Crusader~
I am very happy with weapon mastery. The 50% chance to resist a disarm=awesome, and the 4 to all weapon skills, while isn't gamebreaking is always nice to have. Now I wont have to waste 2 points into imp hamstring.

I think it's pretty sweet too; I plan on getting both weapon mastery and imp hamstring though; it procs all the time for me in pvp.

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folder icon   09-27-2006, 02:36 AM
Post #33
Dark Jester

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silencer-7
I agree; I would hope that a dps-geared dps-specced warrior would be able to do more damage than a prot-specced tank. However, my point was to respond to Gaggin, who said that prot-specced warriors won't "cut it" in bg's. While they wont be the unstoppable killing machines dps warriors are, they can still do a good amount of damage and just.. not die. And really, what more could you ask for? Prot is designed to be a defensive tree, it's primary functions are to help you stay alive, and get aggro, both of which it helps you do with a lot of success. If you can do some dps in pvp in addition to this, then great. Like I said, with good tanking gear, a tank's dps can actually be pretty substantial. Howev,er if you want to solely tear people's faces off... thats what the fury and arms trees are there for. Personally, If I am tanking a lot though, which I plan on doing and personally find a lot of fun in, I see no point to not invest pretty intensively in prot.

Prot spec warriors DON'T cut it in BGs. Speccing prot past 18 points in BGs is a waste and detrimental to your performance. There is little actual survivability past Last Stand in Prot that is any good. The survivability, as I said, is the gear and the healers. Giving up MS for anything else in PvP is a waste of time. Show me one HWL honor grind group that doesn't assist train a MS warrior. The only time you really want 18 points in Prot is if you are a fully geared flag runner for organized WSG. There is nothing in prot outside of maybe Conc blow that gives you survivability. Can you PvP as a prot warrior? Yeah, if your team doesn't mind carrying dead weight.

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folder icon   10-03-2006, 03:20 PM
Post #34
Planet_Buster

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im loving the warrior talents. im starting over in the expansion with a warrior as a main, and the new talents make me look forward to it even more.

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folder icon   10-03-2006, 04:29 PM
Post #35
Gaggin

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Velentris on Shadowsong

DJ, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, prot spec can work if you're T3 with awesome gear, just about any spec will work if you have awesome gear. And if you're specced with MS with awesome gear, you're going to do alot better than if you were prot specced. It's like one of the tanking guides I read, the dude who wrote it said "for best tanking you should use thunderfury or a weapon of similar quality". Yeah, no shit dumbfuck, use the best 1hander in the game and of course tanking will go smoother. Tell us something we don't know.

IN pvp most of the prot talents are useless. Try killing a frost mage. A warrior's advantage against them is being able to kill them in a chop or two, they loose that advantage if they prot spec. Conc. blow is great, but not as great as what arms will offer you.

And look at the xpack, the 41 arms thing is awesome, no rage for 10s, but devastate? Will that EVER be used in pvp?

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