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folder icon   05-13-2008, 06:46 AM
McCain ... Post #1
Urin_BloodfaceII

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What makes him great?

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folder icon   05-13-2008, 12:03 PM
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kiljaeden

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He's not Obama and he's not Hillary.

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folder icon   05-13-2008, 02:58 PM
Post #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiljaeden
He's not Obama and he's not Hillary.

Yeah that pretty much takes care of it. He isn't a souless monster like Hillary, and not a rambling idealist like Obama.

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folder icon   05-13-2008, 04:21 PM
Post #4
Urin_BloodfaceII

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What do you like and what don't you like about him?

I have a negative impression of him.

- Pro Iraq war.
- No new health plan.
- Rubbing up against the neo cons.
- Having a official language in America.

- He seems like a flip flopp.
: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2113454...361538#24359529
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQU0...feature=related - abortion
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeBw...feature=related - Gay marriage
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajm5...feature=related - Hopeless war.
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN8EMmML-es - Confederate flag.
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbrejLsixwk

Qoutes like : " I don't think American will have a problem with us staying in Iraq for 10 000 years" , and him being at "the school of pure evil anti-science" aka "Liberty university" makes me scared.

He seems like Bush 2.

What on earth is so bad about Hillary or Obama?

Even though you don't understand the words Obama is using, doesn't mean that he is rambling.

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folder icon   05-13-2008, 11:23 PM
Post #5
kiljaeden

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urin_BloodfaceII
- Having a official language in America.

Right...so, if we didn't have an official language, what with all the Mexicans flowing into the country, I'm going to have to learn Spanish because, as of yet, the Mexicans have absolutely refused to learn English. I'm sorry, but I'm of the mind that if you're going to make ANY country your home, you need to learn the native language. I'm all for having an official language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urin_BloodfaceII
What on earth is so bad about Hillary or Obama?

Crusader's right: Obama's a socialist who keeps saying he brings change. What change? And Hillary has no soul.

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folder icon   05-14-2008, 12:18 AM
Post #6
~Crusader~

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urin_BloodfaceII
Even though you don't understand the words Obama is using, doesn't mean that he is rambling.

No, I know exactly what Obama is saying: Change! It's just his theories of change are unrealistic and highly idealistic.

Besides, if he does win, I highly doubt that any of his supposed "changes" will really come to fruition. Even if they do, they will be quite different from what he is promising now.

McCain is more down to Earth than the other two and has more experience. Plus the guy is a war hero. Vietnam will be shaking in their boots if he gets elected.

I'd go into further detail, but I'm tired from finals and doubt any type of evidence regardless of its quality would convince you.

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folder icon   05-14-2008, 10:09 AM
Post #7
Urin_BloodfaceII

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Idealistic? Perhaps for the US. Most of the shit hes planing is like Scandinavian countries have it now! Why on earth should not you be able to get that over TIME?
Not 4-8 years, but probably a lot more to fix your downfall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz9SHy7tQVU - Moore is a douche, but its mostly true.

Being a war hero and down to earth is first of all not good arguments for choosing a president. I think also Obama can think more down to earth than McCain ever can.

Hes 72 ... university professors usually leave by their own will, when they are about 60 in Norway because the community and themselves feel they can not follow the changes in the sciences.

He wants to stay in Iraq and does not seem to be as diplomatic as the rest.

Top change someones mind is hard. First its a kick to ones confidence and especially when there is a social aspect to it as a forum. It might also destroy some pillars for his entire world view or something that he holds dear. Over time however(faster with good arguments) I would change my mind if I thought they were good arguments. I could never say "Crusader, your so smart and brilliant and have better arguments than me", but would say you had a good or valid point. Which is something very positive. But in the end it is not to win the discussion, but to enlighten each other that is the key to discourse.

I have changed my mind concerning :
- Death penalty
- Free will
- God, atheism, liberal Christians and conservatives a lot of times.
- Went from economical liberalism to social liberalism.
- Pc / Mac
- logical positivism - discourse analysis.

On what things have you changed your mind?

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folder icon   05-14-2008, 12:55 PM
Post #8
~Crusader~

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urin_BloodfaceII
Idealistic? Perhaps for the US. Most of the shit hes planing is like Scandinavian countries have it now! Why on earth should not you be able to get that over TIME?
Not 4-8 years, but probably a lot more to fix your downfall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz9SHy7tQVU - Moore is a douche, but its mostly true.

Being a war hero and down to earth is first of all not good arguments for choosing a president. I think also Obama can think more down to earth than McCain ever can.

Hes 72 ... university professors usually leave by their own will, when they are about 60 in Norway because the community and themselves feel they can not follow the changes in the sciences.

He wants to stay in Iraq and does not seem to be as diplomatic as the rest.

Top change someones mind is hard. First its a kick to ones confidence and especially when there is a social aspect to it as a forum. It might also destroy some pillars for his entire world view or something that he holds dear. Over time however(faster with good arguments) I would change my mind if I thought they were good arguments. I could never say "Crusader, your so smart and brilliant and have better arguments than me", but would say you had a good or valid point. Which is something very positive. But in the end it is not to win the discussion, but to enlighten each other that is the key to discourse.

I have changed my mind concerning :
- Death penalty
- Free will
- God, atheism, liberal Christians and conservatives a lot of times.
- Went from economical liberalism to social liberalism.
- Pc / Mac
- logical positivism - discourse analysis.

On what things have you changed your mind?


I hear what you're saying Urin and you are correct, but I'm so cynically apathetic that I wonder why I even ventured in here. Like I said, I would provide better arguments, but honestly, I don't really care.

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folder icon   05-17-2008, 02:37 PM
Post #9
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Of the three candidates, McCain has the most aggressive stance against Russia's recently revived imperialistic ambitions. That takes care of it for me.

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folder icon   05-17-2008, 03:35 PM
Post #10
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Quote:
Posted by kiljaeden:
Right...so, if we didn't have an official language, what with all the Mexicans flowing into the country, I'm going to have to learn Spanish because, as of yet, the Mexicans have absolutely refused to learn English. I'm sorry, but I'm of the mind that if you're going to make ANY country your home, you need to learn the native language. I'm all for having an official language.
THANK YOU. im glad im not the only one who thinks this way.
Quote:
Posted by Urin:
Top change someones mind is hard. First its a kick to ones confidence and especially when there is a social aspect to it as a forum. It might also destroy some pillars for his entire world view or something that he holds dear. Over time however(faster with good arguments) I would change my mind if I thought they were good arguments. I could never say "Crusader, your so smart and brilliant and have better arguments than me", but would say you had a good or valid point. Which is something very positive. But in the end it is not to win the discussion, but to enlighten each other that is the key to discourse.
ok... im fine with the concept of discussion being to enlighten each other, but...
Quote:
I have changed my mind concerning :
- Death penalty
- Free will
- God, atheism, liberal Christians and conservatives a lot of times.
- Went from economical liberalism to social liberalism.
- Pc / Mac
- logical positivism - discourse analysis.

On what things have you changed your mind?

now youre making it sound like changing your mind is a good thing. dont get me wrong, its not necessarily bad--but its not something you should be doing all the time. if youre always changing your mind, then you have no opinion at all. this is actually one of my problems with Hillary--she doesnt have any opinions. she changes her mind on things and says whatever people want to hear on whatever the current hot button issue is. shes a sleazy, conniving, arrogant politician who wants to do what is best... for her, to get her into office. i hate that bitch.

Obama, however, i have no real quarrel with(despite my being conservative). frankly as long as Hillary doesnt get into office then im fine with either Obama or McCain. ill be voting for McCain because his beliefs match mine more closely(though not entirely--i may be conservative but some of my views are much less so), but i cant force myself to care enough about politics to be bothered if Obama wins.

incidentally, another thing i like about McCain and Obama is that they seem more like Human beings. cases in point(this is by hearsay, mind you, so i might be a little off)--McCain was asked if he was going to die soon(or some such--referring to his age), and his reaction was a bit agitated(i think he called the kid a punk or something), which, while not very politic, was very natural(and funny). Obama and Hillary were asked(in a debate iirc) what their greatest flaw was; Hillary's answer was that she was 'too awesome'(too devoted to America or some political bullshit), while Obama's answer was that he could be pretty disorganized(you know, the kind of answer an actual PERSON might give).

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folder icon   05-17-2008, 03:41 PM
Post #11
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I think they're all idiots. I also think Obama has the most potential for good while McCain is the safest choice.

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folder icon   05-17-2008, 07:15 PM
Post #12
Kjell Thusaud

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiljaeden
Right...so, if we didn't have an official language, what with all the Mexicans flowing into the country, I'm going to have to learn Spanish because, as of yet, the Mexicans have absolutely refused to learn English. I'm sorry, but I'm of the mind that if you're going to make ANY country your home, you need to learn the native language. I'm all for having an official language.


This has to be the stupidest argument yet!

English is the native language in ONE place, England!

There are several naitive languages in the Americas but none of them are european and I seriously doubt that you have bothered to learn any of them although you have lived there for at least one generation!

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folder icon   05-17-2008, 08:19 PM
Post #13
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Quote:
Posted by Kjell:
There are several naitive languages in the Americas but none of them are european and I seriously doubt that you have bothered to learn any of them although you have lived there for at least one generation!
wrong. the native language in America is English. some places may be more bi- or multi-lingual than others, but in all of the 50 states, English is the primary language.

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folder icon   05-17-2008, 09:09 PM
Post #14
kiljaeden

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Thusaud
This has to be the stupidest argument yet!

English is the native language in ONE place, England!

There are several naitive languages in the Americas but none of them are european and I seriously doubt that you have bothered to learn any of them although you have lived there for at least one generation!


I might be wrong on this, but I'm not sure that there are a lot of other places in the world as ethnically diverse as America. Therefore, for most places, the native language is the primary one.

The predominant race in America is Western European aka white folks. We speak English. I'm sorry that we took the Indians' lands blah blah blah, sob story, sob story. But what happened happened and there's no reversing that. The white man took over America and we speak English. If you want to live in our country, speak our language. How would you feel if I went to *insert your country of origin here* and absolutely refused to speak *insert native/primary language here*? Not only that, but what if I brought umpteen million of my friends and family and a large portion of them refused to learn the language, to the point where the government, to make sure no one felt bad *eye twitch*, started putting up bilingual signs or broadcasting bilingual commercials, or worse yet, broadcasting in only one language: my language. How would you feel if you went to work somewhere and your customers walked in and you can barely understand a word they're saying and they can barely understand a word they're saying? Now imagine that this happens multiple times a day. Similarly, how would you feel about walking into an establishment and the employee can't understand a word you're saying and you can't understand a word thay're saying?

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folder icon   05-18-2008, 05:39 AM
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Kjell Thusaud

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Yes, English is the Primary language but making it the official language would be the biggest joke since manifest destiny.

Naitive language is the language the naitives speak, not the damn colonists!

Undill the day ou all learn Navaho or whatever you are in no position to complain if people moving to the U.S doesn't learn English, that is their choice and it is the same choice that you have made.

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folder icon   05-18-2008, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Posted by Kjell:
Yes, English is the Primary language but making it the official language would be the biggest joke since manifest destiny.

Naitive language is the language the naitives speak, not the damn colonists!

you want to quibble over semantics? fine. English is the primary language, not the native language, of the US. it still should be made the official language.
Quote:
Undill the day ou all learn Navaho or whatever you are in no position to complain if people moving to the U.S doesn't learn English, that is their choice and it is the same choice that you have made.
no. just no. theres a key difference youre missing here. when the US was colonized, we werent moving into the Native Americans' country, we made our own. the Mexicans are just moving into our country. if the Mexicans want to speak their own language as the Primary language in a country farther north than their own, then they can try to take over part of the US and turn it into their own country. and then after we whoop their ass they can get back to learning English like they should be.

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folder icon   05-18-2008, 03:24 PM
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Kjell do you know whats the difference between colonization and immigration?

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folder icon   05-18-2008, 04:20 PM
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Kjell Thusaud

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Planet_Buster
you want to quibble over semantics? fine. English is the primary language, not the native language, of the US. it still should be made the official language.no. just no. theres a key difference youre missing here. when the US was colonized, we werent moving into the Native Americans' country, we made our own. the Mexicans are just moving into our country. if the Mexicans want to speak their own language as the Primary language in a country farther north than their own, then they can try to take over part of the US and turn it into their own country. and then after we whoop their ass they can get back to learning English like they should be.

Yeah, I guess my argument is completely void if you are a bigoted asshole that think its a better idea to kill people than to allow them to have their own culture and language.

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folder icon   05-18-2008, 05:45 PM
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There's a great middle ground between killing off hispanic immigrants and letting them creat their own parallel society inside America. Its called assimilation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Thusaud
Yes, English is the Primary language but making it the official language would be the biggest joke since manifest destiny.

Naitive language is the language the naitives speak, not the damn colonists!

Undill the day ou all learn Navaho or whatever you are in no position to complain if people moving to the U.S doesn't learn English, that is their choice and it is the same choice that you have made.



Your argument is absolutly retarded. You're speaking as if Amerindians were the only ones native to this continent. A native is defined according to his society of origine. The Amerindians you speak of live in secluded segregated reserves, and this is the only society they're native from. They're not even related to the Amerindians that populated the continent centuries ago, since modern Amerindians have more in common with me, with you, and with westerners in general, than they have with their own ancestors.

Yet, contemporary amerindian society is distinct from the larger american society, because of the continuous segregation.

Last edited by Black~Enthusiasm on 05-18-2008 at 05:56 PM.
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folder icon   05-18-2008, 06:04 PM
Post #20
Kjell Thusaud

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black~Enthusiasm
There's a great middle ground between killing off hispanic immigrants and letting them creat their own parallel society inside America. Its called assimilation.

What are you? Borg?

Why can't there be a bilingual society?

The U.S.A was founded just as much by Hispanic people and Frenchmen as it was by the English!

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folder icon   05-18-2008, 07:38 PM
Post #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Thusaud
What are you? Borg?

Assimilation is a generational process through wich the offsprings of immigrants are integrated into their adoptive country. In the case of hispanics, this would mean for their future generations to eventualy english, and to be able to participate into american society at the same level than native americans.

There's nothing immoral in this, other than the host society (america) is the one generating the parameters of what constitute succesfull integration. This may seem like it puts the immigrants in a subordinated position, but this is only so the host society will be able to perpetuate itself in the future like it desire - a legitimate aspiration. If America wants to remain an unilingual society, then it has the legitimate right to enforce policies that will make its immigrants use english has their main language.
Quote:

Why can't there be a bilingual society?

Why *should* there be a bilingual society? Whats wrong with perpetuating America's linguistic homogeneity?
Quote:

The U.S.A was founded just as much by Hispanic people and Frenchmen as it was by the English!

Oh, you troll you.

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folder icon   05-18-2008, 10:06 PM
Post #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Thusaud
Undill the day ou all learn Navaho or whatever you are in no position to complain if people moving to the U.S doesn't learn English, that is their choice and it is the same choice that you have made.

Umm...not...quite...seeing as I didn't immigrate here. I was born here. I didn't move down to Mexico and refuse to learn Mexican, which I'm sure would piss them off.

And if they want to have their own culture, fine! Let them! I have no problem with that. But if they are going to only going to embrace their own and refuse to embrace just the communicative (yes it's a word) aspect of our culture, I'm gonna get pissed.

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folder icon   05-19-2008, 04:34 AM
Post #23
Kjell Thusaud

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black~Enthusiasm
Assimilation is a generational process through wich the offsprings of immigrants are integrated into their adoptive country.

No, that is intergration, assimilation is them completely conforming to the local culture language and norms so that they become indistinguisable from 'the normal people'

With intergration the immigrants become a new feature of the country, bringing their own traditions, ideas and languages into the melting pot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black~Enthusiasm

There's nothing immoral in this, other than the host society (america) is the one generating the parameters of what constitute succesfull integration. This may seem like it puts the immigrants in a subordinated position, but this is only so the host society will be able to perpetuate itself in the future like it desire - a legitimate aspiration. If America wants to remain an unilingual society, then it has the legitimate right to enforce policies that will make its immigrants use english has their main language.


No country has the right to perpetuate itself, it will always come at the cost of the majoritys happines and wellbeing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black~Enthusiasm

Why *should* there be a bilingual society? Whats wrong with perpetuating America's linguistic homogeneity?


Otherwise you are marking the non-english speakers down as second rate citizens, saying that your language is better than their and by extention also your culture.

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folder icon   05-19-2008, 11:22 AM
Post #24
kiljaeden

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Thusaud
Otherwise you are marking the non-english speakers down as second rate citizens, saying that your language is better than their and by extention also your culture.

No, we're saying that this language is the one spoken primarily here and we want to be able to communicate with y'all.

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folder icon   05-19-2008, 06:05 PM
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Thats the big issues I have changed my mind about in abotu 10 years. So yes, I think its a good thing to change once mind if the arguments supports it.

But not change ones opinion always like certain other people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c

Find me similar stuff with Obama! McCain is so out of touch with the modern world that he still believes he can pull such crap!

POWNAGE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK0d8ENS__c

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folder icon   05-19-2008, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Posted by Kjell:
Otherwise you are marking the non-english speakers down as second rate citizens, saying that your language is better than their and by extention also your culture.
so, youre saying that anyone who wants one national language for ease of communication among the nation is a racist? ...im really not sure i can argue with somebody that dumb.
Quote:
Posted by Urin:
Thats the big issues I have changed my mind about in abotu 10 years. So yes, I think its a good thing to change once mind if the arguments supports it.
the thing is, changing your mind--your opinion--is just that, an opinion. there is no right or wrong about it. so its hard for arguments to support things that are subjective.

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folder icon   05-19-2008, 07:34 PM
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Things can be considered right or wrong with axioms. Without axioms, yes we can not say that any thing is right or wrong ,good or bad. So I kind off agree. One can 't really say "the movie is good" to use an extreme the movie can be good at being bad if that was the context. Like "plan 9 from outer space".

Things can on the other hand be more or less well funded.
- Strength of agrument.
- Its connection to other axioms in ones world view.
- Number of arguments.
- "morale" of arguments.
- most likely.
- etc.

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folder icon   05-19-2008, 08:22 PM
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BTW, English is the primary language of the world. Almost anybody with half a brain learns English as their second language and many countries force students to learn it in order to efficiently communicate worldwide.

Arguing against English as a required language is retarded. If you don't want to speak and operate within our society, then stay the fuck out of our society. I don't care if you're a sombrero peddling taco merchant as long as you can speak English and are a legal citizen/immigrant.

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folder icon   05-21-2008, 06:38 PM
Post #29
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Bush and McCain has voted the same way on the same bills 95% of the time!

Yes we can!

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folder icon   05-22-2008, 08:55 AM
Post #30
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A vote for McCain tells the Rep party they can get away with anything.

A vote for Obama tells the world we realize we made a mistake and we regret it.

that alone may not be enough to convince you, so let's look at this.

The main campaign promises of Obama are to turn our economy around, get out of Iraq, and provide cheaper healthcare. Chances are, if he's elected these will be the most attainable goals for his administration. If you like this, vote for him.

McCain's campaign promises are to stay in Iraq until the job is done. He's also pro life and would have a good chance to overturn Roe v Wade. His promises to improve the environment, security, and lower cost of healthcare is all just pillowtalk - never trust a Rep on these issues. His longstanding issues with campaign finance also goes against his own party and I doubt it'd happen. If you think we can and should fix Iraq over a long period, and you're pro life, and you don't give a damn about the economy, then vote for McCain.

Oh, and as a more libertarian person, I'm all for people's rights to learn and speak whatever language they want. I don't see any problem in learning new languages, and I don't see why any country has an official language, except to piss on those minorities that speak something else. It's a pointless law, and if anything, can only hurt those who don't speak the official tongue if and when all of a sudden all legal documents and websites are only in that official tongue.

I would strongly suggest learning English as a wise decision, but I see no reason to make my wisdom "official". I also think it's wise not to smoke or go hangliding, but I'm not about to make that official either.

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folder icon   05-22-2008, 10:56 AM
Post #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
A vote for McCain tells the Rep party they can get away with anything.

A vote for Obama tells the world we realize we made a mistake and we regret it.


Repentance in '08?

Quote:

McCain's campaign promises are to stay in Iraq until the job is done. He's also pro life and would have a good chance to overturn Roe v Wade.

How do you suppose McCain stands a better chance of overturning Roe v. Wade than Bush did? And I thought he was one of the less socialy conservative Republican. But maybe I'm wrong, I dont know much about him.
Quote:

Oh, and as a more libertarian person, I'm all for people's rights to learn and speak whatever language they want. I don't see any problem in learning new languages, and I don't see why any country has an official language, except to piss on those minorities that speak something else. It's a pointless law, and if anything, can only hurt those who don't speak the official tongue if and when all of a sudden all legal documents and websites are only in that official tongue.

I would strongly suggest learning English as a wise decision, but I see no reason to make my wisdom "official". I also think it's wise not to smoke or go hangliding, but I'm not about to make that official either.

I dont understand you. Having an official language doesnt exclude the people's right to learn and speak whatever language they want. It only incite people to learn one language above the others, thats all. And they're not violently coerced to do so either.

France sure as hell got only one official language. Yet, electoral candidates can demande funds from the State to produce tracks and publicities that are in arabe, spanish or mandarin, in places where its needed. Also, the State provide funds for courses in many different languages in places caracterized by heavy immigration. So having an official language doesnt exclude the possibility to accomodate minorities and to integrate them in the political process.

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folder icon   05-22-2008, 11:31 AM
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Why don't you want an elitist president btw? Not that I'm saying that Obama is. but why not?

Also : Hardball ... really enjoyed myself druing this interview.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...n%20Obama&hl=en

yes. Using WW2 references like, someone is Hitler or Chamberlain means you have lost the discussion, and I am proud of us for not using that in this forum. Hugs for everyone.

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folder icon   05-22-2008, 02:49 PM
Post #33
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"How do you suppose McCain stands a better chance of overturning Roe v. Wade than Bush did? And I thought he was one of the less socialy conservative Republican. But maybe I'm wrong, I dont know much about him."

Currently only 5 of the 9 supreme court justices support abortion. One of them is now 88 years old. You think he can live another four years? Bush narrowed the gap and McCain could clinch it. And his pro life stance is the only thing getting him the religious right's vote, as many social conservatives don't like him otherwise. They preferred the ministerial Huckabee.

"Having an official language doesnt exclude the people's right to learn and speak whatever language they want. It only incite people to learn one language above the others, thats all. And they're not violently coerced to do so either. "

Exactly, having an "official" language doesn't change anything. So why do it? It's a way of pointing to anyone who speaks anything else and saying, "you're not one of us. You're not official." I mean on one hand, who cares one way or the other, but to me it just seems like a dickhead thing to do to a bunch of strangers, just trying to live in your country. And yeah, France has been speaking french for thousands of years, Germany's been speaking German forever and Italy speaks Italian, etc. Even then I don't care, I don't see the need to make any language "official". But in America where over 60 languages are spoken in any hundred mile radius across the country, which has only bee in power for a couple hundred years, and once almost made German the official language. I mean, come on, America is supposed to be beyond all this shit.

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folder icon   05-22-2008, 10:39 PM
Post #34
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Well the purpose of an official language is for ease of communication. Assuming you build a public education system then you have standardized cirriculums and one of the aspects is what language to learn. In Canada you learn English first and French second (but more like nobody can speak french properly except for various francophone communities), and in Quebec, which likes to be a complete asshole, French only.

Government funding is provided for secondary "heritage" schools in Ontario for third languages, such as cantonese and so on, tagged onto the primary education system. These exist in areas where there happens to be a vested interest by some ethnic group to learn a language.

Third languages are also taught in native tribes where each tribe has its own language and the best example is Nunavut which learns Inuktitut as an official language in addition to English and French.

Basic point is, having an official language is to standardize communication and for the government to provide services guaranteed to reach all of its citizens. You can't expect a government to build 60 variants of the same thing, for efficiency's sake, its better for the government to provide one or two variants of a service for higher quality. It's not oppressive to ask people to learn a local language, it's only oppressive to block them from learning additional languages.

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folder icon   05-23-2008, 07:30 AM
Post #35
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English is already standard and taught in all american schools. Foreign students must take ELL courses.

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