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Climate change conference in Bali  
folder icon   12-13-2007, 02:14 PM
Climate change conference in Bali Post #1
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http://www.france24.com/france24Pub...77b6o&cat=world

Quote:
Al Gore on Thursday delivered a rousing call for the world to fight against climate change without the United States, which he accused of blocking tactics at the key UN conference in Bali.

Exhausted negotiators at the Indonesian resort island grappled over deadlocked text early Friday, just hours before the talks were scheduled to conclude.

But delegates questioned by AFP saw little hope of any early breakthrough on the biggest problem.

To warm applause at a conference side event, Gore took the lash to the United States of President George W. Bush and demanded tough commitments to crack down on the greenhouse-gas emissions that drive global warming.

Gore, who narrowly lost to Bush in 2000, told the packed conference room that he was no longer in office and "not bound by diplomatic niceties."

"So I am going to speak an inconvenient truth," said Gore, referring to the climate film that won him an Oscar.

"My own country, the United States is principally responsible for obstructing progress here in Bali. We all know that," he said to loud cheers.

"But my country is not the only one that can take steps to ensure that we move forward from Bali with progress and with hope."

Environment ministers or their stand-ins from more than 180 countries have until Friday to agree a framework for tackling global warming past 2012, when pledges under the Kyoto Protocol, boycotted by Bush, expire.

Hailing growing local efforts in the United States to fight global warming, the newly minted 2007 Nobel peace laureate urged the conference to be hopeful that the next president who succeeds Bush in 2009 will take action.

"You can feel anger and frustration, and direct it at the United States of America," said Gore.

"Or you can make a second choice, you can decide to move forward and do all of the difficult work that needs to be done and save a large open blank space in your document and put a footnote by it that says this document is incomplete."

"Over the next two years, the United States is going to be somewhere it isn't right now. You must anticipate that," he said.

The White House denied that its delegation was playing a blocking role. "I think he is incorrect," said spokeswoman Dana Perino.

Despite Gore's impassioned intervention, delegates were mostly consumed by the much drier work of finishing a declaration before the conference, launched on December 3, closes Friday.

The goal is set down the parameters for negotiations that will give a quantum boost to reducing greenhouse-gas emissions and helping poor countries that are most vulnerable to climate change.

The European Union, backed by developing countries, wants a reference by industrialised countries that a cut of 25-40 percent in their emissions by 2020, compared with 1990 levels, will be a guideline for future talks.

The United States is opposed to the 25-40 figures, and delegates say its position is also shared by Japan, Canada and Russia.

Angered by what it saw as US-led efforts to water down the final text, the EU warned of snubbing climate talks called by Bush next month in Hawaii if the Bali meeting collapsed.

"If we would have a failure in Bali, it would be meaningless to have the major economies meeting," said Humberto Rosa, secretary of state for the environment from EU president Portugal.

The White House retorted: "Obviously, those comments are not constructive to a conversation where everybody wants to get together for this meeting to talk about a framework for moving forward."

James Connaughton, chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality, rejected blame, saying: "Every country has a negotiating position, not just the US."

"We will lead, the US will lead, and we will continue to lead, but leadership also requires others to fall in line and follow."

In a report issued this year, the UN's climate-change body, the Inter-Governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), predicted that by 2100 global average surface temperatures could rise by between 1.1 C and 6.4 C (1.98 and 11.52 F) compared to 1980-99 levels, stoked by heat-trapping gases from burning fossil fuels.

More powerful storms, droughts, floods and rising sea levels are among the risks that will escalate in coming decades, threatening hunger and homelessness for millions, it said.

On Thursday, the UN's World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) reported that 2007 was set to be the seventh warmest year on record and the decade of 1998-2007 the warmest ever documented.

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folder icon   12-13-2007, 03:50 PM
Post #2
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Oh and I too think that mad red face next to the topic title is lame unless used in this context for it represents a red hot planet Earth of the future 0_o.

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folder icon   12-13-2007, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
"So I am going to speak an inconvenient truth," said Gore, referring to the climate film that won him an Oscar.


Oh, Gore, your card.
Quote:

"My own country, the United States is principally responsible for obstructing progress here in Bali. We all know that," he said to loud cheers.

What a load of poop, go fuck yourself you bitter failiure of a politician. The developing world is currently responsible for as much pollution than the developed world, with the added difference that they're far from being done with their industrialisation, and countries like China and India feel entitled to pollute their way into wealth and modernity, just because the White Man did it before.

China: Global warming isn't our problem
Quote:
China says West should deal with warming

By MICHAEL CASEY, AP Environmental Writer Fri Dec 7, 6:38 PM ET

BALI, Indonesia - China insisted Friday the U.S. and other wealthy nations should bear the burden of curbing global warming, saying the problem was created by their lavish way of life. It rejected mandatory emission cuts for its own developing industries.

Environmental activists, meanwhile, labeled the United States and Saudi Arabia the worst "climate sinners," accusing them of having inadequate polices for climate problems while letting greenhouse gas emissions rise. But the activists also said no country is doing enough.

Su Wei, a top climate expert for China's government attending the U.N. Climate Change Conference, said the job belongs to the wealthy. He said it was unfair to ask developing nations to accept binding emissions cuts and other restrictions being pushed for already industrialized states.

He said the United States and its fellow industrial nations have long spewed greenhouse gases into the atmosphere while newly emerging economies have done so for only a few decades.

"China is in the process of industrialization and there is a need for economic growth to meet the basic needs of the people and fight against poverty," Su said.

While many experts believe China has surpassed the United States as the world's top emitter of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases, Su noted the Chinese population is far bigger and said America's emissions per person are six times higher than in China.

"I think there is much room for the United States to think whether it's possible to change (its) lifestyle and consumption patterns in order to contribute to the protection of the global climate," he said.

China is one of nearly 190 nations participating in the Dec. 3-14 conference, which is intended to launch negotiations on a new climate treaty to replace the 1997 Kyoto Protocol when it expires in 2012.

The Kyoto pact, which was rejected by the United States, commits three dozen industrial countries that signed on to cut emissions by an average of 5 percent below 1990 levels over the next five years. One of the factors that led President Bush to reject Kyoto was that it didn't require any cuts by fast-developing countries like China, India and Brazil.

Beijing was long accused by environmentalists of evading the issue of global warming, but it is drawing praise for a new attitude at Bali even though China still relies heavily on dirty, outdated coal-burning techniques and is home to 20 of the world's 30 most polluted cities.

The environmental watchdog Germanwatch said Friday that China moved up four spots, to No. 40, on the group's annual ranking of the climate performance of 56 industrialized and emerging countries.

Germanwatch said Beijing has enacted policies promoting renewable energy, including mandates that solar, wind and hydroelectric systems provide 10 percent of China's power by 2010. It also ordered key industries to reduce energy consumption by 20 percent, the group said.

Saudi Arabia was listed as last among the 56 nations, right below the United States.

The group said Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil exporter, was the biggest "climate sinner" for the second year in a row because its emissions are rising and it has no firm policies to address that.

The United States was ranked No. 55 because it opposes mandatory cuts in emissions and argues that technology, private investment and economic growth will save the planet from global warming.

Australia was listed as third-worst offender, but with a caveat: It could rise to No. 20 on the list if new Prime Minister Kevin Rudd follows through with promises to reduce emissions after signing the Kyoto Protocol this week.

"Australia will have to live up to their talk," said Matthias Duwe of Climate Action Network-Europe, which released the list.

Sweden was ranked as doing the best job, followed by Germany, Iceland and Mexico. A news release from Germanwatch praised Mexico for making progress in reducing emissions and adopting a "constructive international and national climate policy."

Environmentalists said European nations as a group have made the most progress on the climate issue, but complained that is doing enough to address global warming.

"The international community is still failing to comply with their responsibilities regarding climate protection," Duwe said. "They have not set themselves firmly on the path of limiting global warming."

I am sympathetic with the chinese argument but that we were either ignorant or unethical in the past in no ways relieves us from taking action now to prevent the same mistakes happening again. To walk down the same path again with the full knowledge of its costs is unethical, particularly using the poor excuse of "so-and-so already did it" like a five year old child.

There are many things that we are doing that hypocritical and unethical. This is not one of them

But I cant help but to love their sense of entitlement to the whole thing.

I also really love how they get to both swing their weight around as a huge industrialized country and cry foul under the umbrella of "developing nation" at the same time.

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folder icon   12-13-2007, 04:08 PM
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Isn't that the lamest argument anyone can use? We are not doing this because no one else will...

The US governement could pull the whole thing off unilateraly or with the EU. China is depended on the access to the Western markets and so is Russia. But China cannot block the deal the same way the US can. We could have economic sanctions on nations that refuse to cut back on CO2 but not without the US since it still dominates the world economy.

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folder icon   12-13-2007, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friend of Fidel
China is depended on the access to the Western markets and so is Russia.

To be precise, the link between us and them isnt one of dependance, but of interdependance. Its much more insidious and way eviler.

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folder icon   12-13-2007, 08:14 PM
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Well i think pollution penalties should be based on per capita production, not aggregate production.

So in that mindset, china should reduce pollution about 6x less the rate of USA.

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folder icon   12-14-2007, 02:30 PM
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Emission reductions would hurt the economy. We can't afford to lose economic growth.

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folder icon   12-14-2007, 11:35 PM
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Why cant we afford to lose economic growth?

I like to lose economic growth!

Lets lose some economic growth!

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folder icon   12-15-2007, 05:53 AM
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Ye, maybe we'll lose some weight too! All big nations keep passing on the responsibility. Bunch of noobs they are.

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folder icon   12-17-2007, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CEO Morgan
Emission reductions would hurt the economy. We can't afford to lose economic growth.


Yeah I'm much happier with the distinct possibility of worldwide economic, social, and political catastrophes brought on by climate destabilization. Rather than the slight chance of hurting economic growth, even though by my understanding policy changes to decrease emissions could also potentially be a boost to the economy creating new jobs.

There is no logical argument against taking action against global warming.

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Last edited by Cloud on 12-23-2007 at 03:52 PM.
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