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folder icon   05-23-2008, 08:55 AM
Post #36
Urin_BloodfaceII

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The language discussion is a huge digression. Make a new topic.

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folder icon   05-23-2008, 11:26 AM
Post #37
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Pussyfart! You mentioned it first as part of McCain's position.

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folder icon   05-23-2008, 01:33 PM
Post #38
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I didnt mean for it to be the only thing discussed in this topic.

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folder icon   05-23-2008, 04:16 PM
Post #39
so and so

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since when does a thread starter get sole right to decide what topic can or can't be in his thread?



I talked about McCain and haven't had a response. Don't blame me for that.

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folder icon   05-24-2008, 03:50 AM
Post #40
kiljaeden

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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
English is already standard and taught in all american schools. Foreign students must take ELL courses.

That's all well and good for the students who, even if we didn't have the classes, would probably pick up the language anyways simply because the mind is more absorbant at a young age. What about the parents? Why do they get away scot-free?

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folder icon   05-24-2008, 03:02 PM
Post #41
so and so

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that's right, we should hunt them down Men in Black style, and force them to attend area middle schools.

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folder icon   05-24-2008, 06:00 PM
Post #42
kiljaeden

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Look, I'm sorry, but I"m tired of the government babying EVERYONE. It's not the government's job to do everything for people.

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folder icon   05-24-2008, 06:36 PM
Post #43
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Babying is nice when your illiteracy is up the roof, people can't go to uni because of economical reasons, your health care ( more like "health we don't care ) is a joke and the rich and religious gets the tax breaks .

And what part of the baby sitting are you against?

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folder icon   05-24-2008, 07:41 PM
Post #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urin_BloodfaceII
Babying is nice when your illiteracy is up the roof, people can't go to uni because of economical reasons, your health care ( more like "health we don't care ) is a joke and the rich and religious gets the tax breaks .

And what part of the baby sitting are you against?


I dunno, just systems similar to those in Europe are harder to impliment. I mean, the U.S. does dwarf each individual European state in size and infrastructure. Enacting things like government subsidized healthcare and progressive schooling would bankrupt the government (atleast put it even deeper into debt) OR the result of such systems would be so poor that it would be better to go to independent companies.

I think the above reasons are probably reasonable answers to why the U.S. has been so slow to enact such progressive policy, not to mention that the economy is completely stinted because of the oil situation.

BTW I'm less apathetic now Graduated and rested from lots of hard work.

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folder icon   05-24-2008, 10:27 PM
Post #45
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Babying to the point where people become dependant upon the government for survival such that they won't get even try to become independant of the government.

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folder icon   05-24-2008, 11:23 PM
Post #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urin_BloodfaceII
What makes him great?

He is not! He is just better then the white bitch, and the black bastard.

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folder icon   05-27-2008, 06:47 PM
Post #47
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Do I need to draw a crayon picture with puppets and funny voices for you to understand that its insane to vote republican?

Sigh ... sorry, its just ... gaaah ! I might have a unflattering view of republicans.
My view of average republicans is this: http://www.comedycentral.com/colber...l?videoId=70809

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folder icon   05-28-2008, 07:41 AM
Post #48
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When did this website get overrun by a bunch of Young Republicans, who somehow have managed to continue to drink the kool-aid after more than seven years of failed policy, decimated foreign relations, and domestic disaster.

Then again, the shear joy of reading some one from California bitch about Spanish speakers is the kind of thing you do not get every day. It is almost as if he does not quite realize that people have been speaking Spanish in California for centuries, continuously. Then it gets better, he actually says that he doesn't go to Mexico and make Mexicans stop speaking Mexican. Like, he is completely combining ignorance, racism, and stupidity into a hugely ironic statement, just wow.

Any way, la proprit, c'est le vol. Enjoy your crumbling empire while you can.

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folder icon   05-28-2008, 12:29 PM
Post #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spliff Smoking Lab Chimp


Then again, the shear joy of reading some one from California bitch about Spanish speakers is the kind of thing you do not get every day. It is almost as if he does not quite realize that people have been speaking Spanish in California for centuries, continuously.


Does this fact change anything to his argument, that his country shouldnt admit a second national language?

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folder icon   05-28-2008, 12:47 PM
Post #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spliff Smoking Lab Chimp
Enjoy your crumbling empire while you can.

you are smokin' on that spliff again eh?

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folder icon   05-29-2008, 01:44 AM
Post #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spliff Smoking Lab Chimp
It is almost as if he does not quite realize that people have been speaking Spanish in California for centuries, continuously.

And your point is...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spliff Smoking Lab Chimp
Then it gets better, he actually says that he doesn't go to Mexico and make Mexicans stop speaking Mexican.

Amazing, because that is, in fact not what I said. I said that I don't go to Mexico and refuse to learn Mexican. If I were moving to Mexico for an extended period of time, I would learn the native freaking language.

Today at my work there was a guy there who was an English teacher that said that he was currently taking a class to learn how to teach ELL that, if he didn't take this class, he would lose his job. The fact that this is being forced upon this person, or any person, is disgusting. There are other people that could do this job.

The other day I was watching TV and a commercial aired that was entirely in Spanish. I was enfuriated. That's NOT okay.

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folder icon   05-29-2008, 02:22 AM
Post #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black~Enthusiasm
La proprit, c'est la libert.



Does this fact change anything to his argument, that his country shouldnt admit a second national language?


What argument? He isn't making a coherent case for any thing, just bitching about Mexicans and being forced to hear Spanish.

What the fuck difference is it to him? The fact that I hear multiple languages every day in my city doesn't anger me, or any other rational person. If people are unwilling or unable to speak the language of the majority in any given locale it is to their detriment, not mine. I enjoy living in a modern, cosmopolitan, city that attracts people from around the globe, it allows me to grow as a person by experiencing new things.

It is not as if English is endangered in the US, it is thriving. That said, learning a second language never hurts, it only expands one's opportunities.

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folder icon   05-29-2008, 02:24 AM
Post #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiljaeden
And your point is...?



Amazing, because that is, in fact not what I said. I said that I don't go to Mexico and refuse to learn Mexican. If I were moving to Mexico for an extended period of time, I would learn the native freaking language.

Today at my work there was a guy there who was an English teacher that said that he was currently taking a class to learn how to teach ELL that, if he didn't take this class, he would lose his job. The fact that this is being forced upon this person, or any person, is disgusting. There are other people that could do this job.

The other day I was watching TV and a commercial aired that was entirely in Spanish. I was enfuriated. That's NOT okay.


Hears a hint, it makes you sound like an ignorant, racist, child, when you refer to the language spoken in Mexico as Mexican.

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folder icon   05-29-2008, 03:38 AM
Post #54
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"The other day I was watching TV and a commercial aired that was entirely in Spanish. I was enfuriated. That's NOT okay."

Ha Ha Ha Ha Haa!!!!!!!!

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folder icon   05-29-2008, 06:14 AM
Post #55
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Critiquing other's knowledge of the English language would be best suited to those who could spell infuriated properly.

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folder icon   05-29-2008, 12:04 PM
Post #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spliff Smoking Lab Chimp
The fact that I hear multiple languages every day in my city doesn't anger me, or any other rational person. If people are unwilling or unable to speak the language of the majority in any given locale it is to their detriment, not mine. I enjoy living in a modern, cosmopolitan, city that attracts people from around the globe, it allows me to grow as a person by experiencing new things.

I have no problem with people knowing or speaking another language. But when millions of people don't learn the main language of the country in which they live, namely the language spoken at schools, at work, on TV, to the point that the government accomodates them, I'm not okay with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spliff Smoking Lab Chimp
It is not as if English is endangered in the US, it is thriving. That said, learning a second language never hurts, it only expands one's opportunities.

Aye, but I shouldn't be forced to learn a non-native language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spliff Smoking Lab Chimp
Hears a hint, it makes you sound like an ignorant, racist, child, when you refer to the language spoken in Mexico as Mexican.

And here's another one: it makes you sound like an ignorant moron when you say that: nearly every Mexican I know makes the stipulation that the language that they speak is Mexican, not Spanish. However, if it helps you wrap your brain around it, I'll refer to it as Spanish. Okay, pumpkin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Jester
Critiquing other's knowledge of the English language would be best suited to those who could spell infuriated properly.

Wow. Good job for making fun of someone that made a typo. High-fives all around.

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folder icon   05-29-2008, 09:04 PM
Post #57
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You didn't think it was slightly ironic?

Anyways, typos are a thing of the past. Not only should you be familiar with your native language after 20 years, but there are a multitude of programs that do spell check while you're typing.

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folder icon   05-30-2008, 03:54 AM
Post #58
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But how many of them are open with this internet window? However, yes, from now on I'm going to type this post into Word, then do a spell check, then copy and paste it into this post. Thank you for that.

Yes, it was ironic. Chuckle, chuckle.

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folder icon   05-30-2008, 10:37 AM
Post #59
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"but I shouldn't be forced to learn a non-native language."

Yes you should. You don't know your own language until you learn another - Noam Chomsky.

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folder icon   05-30-2008, 11:52 AM
Post #60
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umm...bull.

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folder icon   05-30-2008, 06:59 PM
Post #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
"but I shouldn't be forced to learn a non-native language."

Yes you should. You don't know your own language until you learn another - Noam Chomsky.


Being bilingual has its rewards, but so and so, did you move to (whatever European country you moved to) and speak English rather than not learning the native language?

I think this is the issue Kiljaden is getting at. I for one can't reason why you would move to a country with a different language than your own and not learn the common language.

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folder icon   05-30-2008, 07:53 PM
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So i don't think i'm understanding the language problem you guys are talking about anymore. It seems to me, you're saying immigrants are refusing to learn english rather than just be bad at it and be poor at improving it. There could be a couple of factors involved here i think...

a) If they just aren't learning the language properly

It's probably because they aren't doing so well in the education system. This could be because they're evading taxes and thus can't get into public school, or any other kind of school without getting deported. This could be do to the high impunity for employers to hire illegals.

b) They refuse to learn the language

This one i'm mystified about, i hadn't realized mexicans were attempting to force everyone to learn spanish. Personally, I always thought americans attempted to be bilingual in spanish in some capacity merely because of the high number of spanish speakers in the country. I didn't realize americans could actually be so vehement to learning a second language. I feel bad i cant really understand french because my vocabulary is the size of bush's brain but here one of you can actually become angered by a spanish commercial?

Get a little less ethnocentric buddy. There's whole channels here that aren't in english... even channels that aren't in french or english. There's portuguese channels, theres mandarin channels, theres cantonese channels etc. I think it's a large benefit to society to be able to see, hear and experience other cultures in their full form. I don't see what kind of attack it is on mainstream to be able to witness another form of society when they are fully willing to work, pay tax and contribute. In fact, in Canada, minority groups like asians, contribute more tax money than the mainstream society. Maybe, in America, the immigrants are the reverse but that's a fault of your immigration policy, not the immigrants.

What is the problem?

I see b~e's insistence on the superiority of mainstream culture for no other reason than that they are the majority. If you want to go with historical time, we should learn native langauges, if you want to go with military power we can go with english, if you want to go with enlightened liberalism you learn everything. I see mexicans performing poorly at english, and then perhaps congregating with other mexicans so that they can have a functioning community within america. I don't see a movement by anyone other than white people to force spanish onto mainstream culture.

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folder icon   05-31-2008, 03:07 PM
Post #63
so and so

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ja hovorim po Slovensky, Crusader. Som sa učil. Ne som najlepe ale to rospravam.

Ha!

E ancora, parlo Italiano.

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folder icon   05-31-2008, 04:08 PM
Post #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so and so
ja hovorim po Slovensky, Crusader. Som sa učil. Ne som najlepe ale to rospravam.

Ha!

E ancora, parlo Italiano.


Excellent, missed the point!

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folder icon   05-31-2008, 07:14 PM
Post #65
kiljaeden

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Crusader~
I think this is the issue Kiljaden is getting at. I for one can't reason why you would move to a country with a different language than your own and not learn the common language.

What else would my point be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra_punk
This one i'm mystified about, i hadn't realized mexicans were attempting to force everyone to learn spanish.

They're...not...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra_punk
Personally, I always thought americans attempted to be bilingual in spanish in some capacity merely because of the high number of spanish speakers in the country.

Yes, but that doesn't mean that I should have to learn Spanish just to survive and deal with people in this state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra_punk
There's whole channels here that aren't in english... even channels that aren't in french or english. There's portuguese channels, theres mandarin channels, theres cantonese channels etc.

Do you see English commercials on those channels?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra_punk
I think it's a large benefit to society to be able to see, hear and experience other cultures in their full form. I don't see what kind of attack it is on mainstream to be able to witness another form of society when they are fully willing to work, pay tax and contribute.

Society gets plenty of that in real life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra_punk
In fact, in Canada, minority groups like asians, contribute more tax money than the mainstream society. Maybe, in America, the immigrants are the reverse but that's a fault of your immigration policy, not the immigrants.

Most of the problem is from illegal immigrants. Illegal = don't have to pay taxes.

I would like to point out that this phenomenon is not limited to Mexicans alone. Other such ethnic groups include Asians and Russians.

Folks, I'm not racist, and this issue is not about race. It's about people not willing to put in the extra work to make their life and the lives of the people with which they interact easier. It's about functioning smoothly in a society. When people walk into the shop that I work at and try to communicate with me, fail, and then get mad at my as if it's my fault, something's not right.

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folder icon   06-01-2008, 01:04 AM
Post #66
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I think Latvia solved this problem in the most effective way. They have a huge population of Russians, most of whom refused to learn Latvian after the USSR split up. The Latvian government passed the law which requires you to pass an elaborate language test to become a citizen. Voila. Don't want to learn the native language? Fine, you're second rate.

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folder icon   06-01-2008, 01:25 AM
Post #67
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Well on the point of commercials, yes the commercials are in the language of the channel.

It seems it all boils down to, you hate illegals and illegals dont have any education or any ability to get education lest they be deported. So well, building that chain link fence is utterly useless. You need to build that thing in the DMZ in Korea. Notice how thousands of north koreans flee to china for political and religious freedom but none go to south korea? See, what you need is a line of bunkers, a minefield, automated turrets, snipers, watch towers, death trench of doom and attack dogs.

Either that, or try to create a general amnesty programme which places requirements on them (such as learning english amongst other things) but gives them the benefits of being a citizen.

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folder icon   06-01-2008, 06:13 AM
Post #68
so and so

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Crusader, I didn't miss the point, I proved you wrong. You claim I live in a foreign country and refuse to learn or speak the language. I do speak Slovak, all the time. I learned it. So, you're wrong. I write in English here on this forum because that's what you all understand.

Am I the best at Slovak? Not yet. But I've only lived here since Sept. That's 9 months. a language takes years to really learn.

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"No ones life is that interesting unless it involves war, porn, or zombies." - Urin Bloodface
"Any country that owes their existence to the french doesn't deserve to be a country." - Love
"i only eat yogurt with a minimum ph of 4.5." - Pld
"I had my utensils removed last summer." - Kjell Thusaud
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folder icon   06-01-2008, 11:55 AM
Post #69
kiljaeden

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I think the point that you missed was that, while you DID learn the language, the immigrants in this country are not learning the language.

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folder icon   06-02-2008, 02:14 AM
Post #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra_punk

I see b~e's insistence on the superiority of mainstream culture for no other reason than that they are the majority. If you want to go with historical time, we should learn native langauges, if you want to go with military power we can go with english, if you want to go with enlightened liberalism you learn everything. I see mexicans performing poorly at english, and then perhaps congregating with other mexicans so that they can have a functioning community within america. I don't see a movement by anyone other than white people to force spanish onto mainstream culture.


Gosh, using the fact that they're the majority to legitimize something. I can smell the gaz chambers already.

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